mjjbecker

Having power over others I mean-except when it comes to reaching the bar first when the last orders bell rings!

mouse, "Sweet words are not sincere, sincere words are not sweet" You know the quote? If you have something to say, then do it clearly and specifically the first time. It will prevent the need for you to have to clear up 'misunderstandings'. My friend, there was no misunderstanding. You made statements which were simply wrong. Please don't play redirection on me-I used to practice and was given permission to teach taijiquan myself. I am aware of the issues regarding Chen style, including the comments and research of the late Wu Tunan. However, someone I respect greatly happens to respect Chen Xiaowang greatly. That being the case I will take his word on the effectiveness of the method. My own practice was not in Chen style. You would do well to look up some of the teachers who learned under Wang if you do have an interest in 'real' taijiquan. Many masters DO seek payment from students who wish to become disciples. Yes, they may wave or reduce the amount depending on their feelings, but it IS a COMMON and WIDESPREAD practice. I'm sorry if you don't agree with this but it is a fact. 'Sigh'...I am well aware that neigong moves qi, thank you very much. I can use my intent to move qi and emit it from different points. Neigong DOES require the storing of energy in the dantien. Your previous comment regarding energy not needing to be stored as simply wrong. As for the packing of qi, you are wrong. It is a fundamental part of neigong, as taught by John Chang of the Mo Pai and the traditional, real, taijiquan neigong. It is also referenced by other masters, including Henry Look and Dr John Painter, (discussed in a published interview-one of the few really good things printed in 'IKF'). Taking energy from the environment is wrong? Well, you'd better warn Wang Liping then, because the collecting of qi from trees is clearly mentioned in his book. Clearly the Dragon Gate lineage don't know what they are getting themselves into. Also, similar practices are mentioned by Alex Kozma as taught to him by his bagua master in Taiwan. You can read about that in his book, 'Esoteric Warriors'. Now, you are right in regards to the increase of energy affecting peoples emotions. This I have seen and experienced myself. On one simple level, it can be put down to the increase in testosterone that is produced in the body. However, energy work effects emotions, releases old stored feelings in the body. Its part of the process and is widely discussed among different people who practice energy work. My friend, if I need any misunderstandings clearing up I will ask my teacher, who can not only talk about these things, but demonstrate them also. I did not accuse you of making any personal attack and I did not take your comments as one. I simply took them for what they were-incorrect. You have since added some more clarification of your opinion. In future it would be nice to state things clearly, without generalisation, in the first instance. It saves this back and forth. However, as I have stated here, some of what you say still simply is not the case-not if we are to believe some fairly eminent masters of these methods. If you can find me someone who shows a higher level of attainment than John Chang or my own teacher, who espouses your views, I will be happy to listen. Until then I have to go with the 'show me the money' school of thought. Opinion is fine, but experience is King. Best, Mike

I posted in reference to this: Storing energy is unhealthy and magnifies emotions leading to unstable states. Energy is all around you and can be manipulated without storing. It was a general comment and it was wrong. Further clarification in another post does not change that. Best, Mike

Fair enough, I can agree that most people have not reached an enlightened state. Why didn't you just say that though? Coming on and simply saying most people are delusional is not very polite. I also agree that power seeking is unwise and unhealthy. I think there is an old saying that goes the road to hell is paved with good intentions. I don't seek any argument, just clarification, and I appreciate your further comments. Best, Mike

Well, we may be delusional but no one would call you modest. With such self confidence in your knowing of 'the truth' a fulfilling career in door-to-door bible selling awaits! Best, Mike

Modest fellow aren't you... Your comments on taiji and energy storing are wrong. That is unless you know more than Chen Xiao Wang and the late Wang Peisheng on this matter? The storing of energy in the dantien is a fundamental part of taijiquan, according to the esteemed Grandmasters of the art I cite above. Chen is the head of the Chen family art and Wang was the head of the Beijing Wu family art. I know people who have studied under these lineages and masters, so I am not quoting 'Inside Kung Fu' here. How about I cite one of Beijing's most revered Bagua masters as well? "Without Neigong all Bagua techniques are good for nothing and there is no use to practice them." http://www.chinafrominside.com/ma/bagua/machuanxu.html What would he know? He is only president of the Beijing Baguazhang Research Association. To become the disciple of Chinese martial arts masters it is common practise to pay a large sum of money. Yes, I know this from experience and on more than one occasion. It is part of the culture. Given your eagerness to explain to us ignorant sorts your knowledge of the Chinese language and culture, I would have thought you would know that. So, let me see. I've been accepted into three separate esoteric traditions, all of which contained neigong. The combined knowledge of those schools exceeds three thousand years. The teachers I've met can back up what they say with demonstrations. I live in China also. Do feel free to site you sources to back up your claims. If they can trump mine I will be more than happy to acknowledge it. Can you do better than two taijiquan grandmasters and a bagua master? Best, Mike

You see what you choose to see. Your misery is in your head. It is how you choose to see the world. Stop a while and think about the MANY good things in your life. It can be difficult to get out of the kind of mental rut you are in, (I've been there myself). Some things to think about. You were born in the richest country the world has ever seen. You complain about your lack of choices, but at least you have some. Do a google search on Darfur, or child labour, or poverty. Take your pick. The world has no shortage of misery and lacking. You are neither physically or mentally disabled. You have your limbs and your use of them. Think of how your life would be if you didn't. You have your mental faculties. Think about the poor souls who do not. I'm not saying this to shame you in any way, just asking that you take a look at what you have, what most of the world hasn't, and then maybe you will get out of bed every day and thank Heaven for your blessings. You are looking for information? You have the greatest tool the world has ever seen-the internet. You want guidance? YOU HAVE ACCESS TO THE WORLDS GREATEST MINDS AT THE TOUCH OF A FEW BUTTONS. You can access information on all of the worlds religions and philosophies. There are countless hours of reading, of timeless wisdom just waiting for you to investigate. How can you say don't have access to a spiritual counsellor or teacher? Since you are posting here it is clear you can read. Go and do some. You see, by your situation fate is simply putting the onus on YOU to have this time to yourself to do your own study. At the right time teachers DO appear. Don't sit around waiting for someone to lead you by the hand because it is not likely to happen. As others have said, you've found a martial arts teacher. If you SERIOUSLY apply yourself to this then it will keep you plenty busy. If you don't feel you want to or its not the right thing for you, do something else. You have MANY choices. Maybe your problem is you have TOO many. It is the illness of modern man that he has so much leisure time it leads to boredom and apathy. Get reading, get researching, go to libraries, visit second hand bookshops, write a list of all the good things in your life that you take for granted, (health, family, education, nationality, the fact you are alive now and not in the Middle Ages, or during WW2 when you would have been drafted to go off and fight a war), and each night before you go to bed and in the morning when you get up, read that list. Don't tell me what you can't do. Tell me what you can. Everyone here is happy to help you, but you must shoulder the burden of your own responsibility. 'Do not wait; the time will never be "just right." Start where you stand, and work with whatever tools you may have at your command, and better tools will be found as you go along'. Napoleon Hill Believe me when I say those words of advice by Napoleon Hill are some of the best you will every read. To sum it up for the Nike Generation, 'Just Do It!' Best, Mike

What Hundun said.

Patience is part of the lesson.

Amen!

Google. All they have to do is a search. There is LOTS of information out there. Oh yes, a bit of thinking on their part as well would help... Notice what this guy is 'selling': Power I quote: "I'll grant you access to all the PRIVATE Chi Building Neigong Videos for free. Lucas has them on his site for $6000. These videos will make you realize your tremendous power." http://www.meditation-mantra.org/alchemy/v...?f=2&t=1176 Horse feathers. No doubt he has just plagiarised information already easily available and repackaged it. He doesn't know a thing, that is quite clear from the videos he puts out. What this joker is is not polite to say in a public forum. However, the people who are buying into this are willing dupes. They want power, so snake oil sellers like this dude find them easy targets. Karma plays out...

What are you guys doing? We are having a discussion. This is a public forum, not a private conversation. Don't worry about it. It is only as big a deal as you allow it to be. Had I known that it was gonna cause an arguement, I would have kept my question to myself. ::sheesh:: It wasn't your question. This is an ongoing debate. Your question didn't start it nor will it likely be the end of it. Anyway, I have always been a bit sensitive, and always have empathized with other folks. I always thought that was just the way I was born or something. Anyway, when I was told that my heart chakra was opened, I thought, oh well...maybe that explains why I am the way I am. I just wondered how, when I have never done any type of energy work...none that I know about, at least. I don't know. Honestly I would say don't worry about it. It is okay to have a difference of opinion, but when you've been practicing for a long time and someone new comes along with lots of questions, you shouldn't show out in front of them. It pertains to wider issues of belief. On matters of belief there are often strong opinions. That is part of life. It's like the kungfu school I had been attending. I love kungfu. I have not studied long, but I take it seriously. Be sincere rather than serious. A lot of the senior guys were learning things that I had to wait to learn and they did not take it seriously...they were sloppy in a lot of the basics that we were supposed to practice everyday...so when they came to give me advice, well, I did not want to listen...and well, I lost interest in that particuliar school...why should I bust my ass for something that is gonna be handed out just for attending? 'Judge not that ye be judged'. What they are, or are not doing, isn't important. Same with advice. You can take it or leave it. Something Mikaelz and myself are fully in agreement with is the importance of not being attached to things. Let it come and let it go. It's all a learning experience. Oh well, sorry for my rant! Rant away. Sincere feelings are good. Just don't get bogged down in them. Let them come and go as is the way of life. Best, Mike

Go have a look at your 'return' post and then go and take a look in the mirror. Best, Mike

mikaelz, This is a public forum, so there is no 'butting in'. You want private dialogue you take it to email or private messages. Anyone here is entitled to share their opinion, just like you. We don't have to agree-in fact most of the debate around here would be pretty boring if everyone did. The argument can be quite enlightening, if a person is prepared to listen. I wonder if you will ever get the point I've been making. I thought I'd been clear enough, but it seems not. Age is not the issue, but maybe you bring it up to avoid the point. EXPERIENCE That is the issue. You continue to make statements of 'truth', but you then say, 'I am just saying what my teacher told me'. You say I'm on my high horse simply because I disagree with you, but I can back up my disagreeing with experience. You don't like that. Yes, I've been doing stuff related to this almost as long as you've been alive. That alone is not the issue. The fact I've had some fairly interesting EXPERIENCES is, I think. We are never going to agree, and that is OK. Everyone has their own life to lead. I wish you the very best in yours. However, if you are going to make blanket statements that I disagree with on this public forum, I am going to comment that based on my EXPERIENCE you are wrong. I'm not contradicting you because I need to prove my point. I have no doubts regarding what I am practising. It has taken me a long time to reach this point, but there it is. I contradict you because you make your blanket statements, you have lack the experience to back them up and never say your source of your information until you get questioned on its validity. Frankly, you can go ahead on your merry path, and I wish you the best of luck, but I will not stand by and let your comments stop other people pursuing a certain way simply because you don't like it. I'm afraid it isn't just your playpen my friend. Do try to play nice and not get personal. The only person who loses is you. Best, Mike P.S. I hope you do look at the issue of aversion and attachment, because you are clearly attached to escaping who and where you are. You will need to deal with this aversion to yourself if you are going to ever release your attachment to attaining 'oneness'. We are all in the same boat, so there is no need to get all prickly about this .

And it seems to me that peoples attraction to these 'O's at a D' seems to revolve around pleasure seeking, rather than cultivation. So, maybe you should ask yourself what is the purpose of your training? If it is simply power seeking, then I hope you realise there will be consequences.

Why don't you go and put that question to the local religious leaders in your community and see what their reaction is? As per usual I agree with Santiago, so nothing much to add except I've had similar experiences, (except the arrested bit ). Best, Mike

If you find that interesting, then you should read about the late Wang Peisheng and his encounter with the Shorinji Kempo master: www.ycgf.org/WPS_Eulogy/WPS_Eulogy.html A friend of mine has done business over the years in Japan. One of the people he met was a Japanese student of Wang Peisheng. Wang had a tremendous reputation in Japan due to his encounter with the Shorinji Kempo people, so I know from other sources that this article isn't just one sides view.

Nope. They are real. Their location IS important. You say don't get caught up with location, but they ARE WHERE THEY ARE. Just like the physical organs in the body. Stop hating yourself. Aversion is as much an issue as attachment. Whatever issues you have, you will not deal with them by running away from them, denying them. Face them and let them go. Best, Mike

Why the hell not!

Blessedly I don't really care what Barry or any of the rest of his ilk have to say about these things. I'd rather find out on my own from my own experiences. I'm all for education in the 'fundamentals', warnings regarding STD's, good, useful practical stuff, etc. You can keep the rest, thank you very much. What is important is what we learn from experience. Yes, the heartache, the arguments, the highs and lows when you start the day singing, 'Oh What a beautiful morning', and finish on, 'Born to lose'. Like everything else in life, experience is what its all about. Bugger opinion . Be grateful early man didn't worry so much about all of this or non of us would be around to have this discussion. They were more concerned with the here and now, the living of life. They weren't concerning themselves with the latest relationship advice from Cosmo or Maxim magazines. The thought of such bollocks makes me go all pitchfork and torch waving I tell you. In the immortal words of 'The King', 'A little less conversation, a little more action'. Let things play out the way they are supposed to. Enjoy the nice bits of life and stop f**king worrying about it in between. Christ, this conversation's got me on the Ray Charles!

I thought this thread was about exercise...

What's wrong with spending some time to do some research, draw your own conclusions and think for yourself? You have tremendous resources at your disposal, not least Google. Christ, when I started out with all of this all I had were a few crappy martial arts magazines... I don't want to be harsh, and some might accuse me of being so, but no one just led me by the hand and gave me it all on a silver plate. I've spent years researching, investigating, making mistakes, running into dead ends and picking myself up again and getting on with it. From reading what you've posted you don't seem to show any willingness to think for yourself. You just want people to tell you what's best to do. Yeh, you'll certainly find plenty of people in life who are willing to do that for you, but that will never absolve you of your obligation to think and make decisions for yourself. You asked for some advice and I gave you what I think is very sound advice. I'm not going to make the choice for you though. That's your job.

Since you are studying Chen taijiquan, I am sure your teacher could recommend some conditioning exercises. Best, Mike

He probably didn't every anticipate something like You Tube every appearing. I recall an interview with one of his Chinese disciples some years back. The student said that Cheng deliberately held stuff back from his non-Chinese students.