fatherpaul

"Again, I think there's one universe. We see it through the lenses of our system, the prism of our conditioning. For those who see outside the Tic Toc. What system helped you see beyond? How much was native talent?" thelerner. at 6 years of age, I had an experience of leaving my body and entering the center of the sun. at 13 I had an out-of-body experience during a life threatening illness.. ( I know now, as it has been stated, experience is colored by a conditioned mind.) the "tic-toc" world to me is just the everydayworld of global miasma. under, over and through all this, as it were, there is just this all vanished void. it has been this way for me for many years, an accidental expulsion from the dream state, I guess you could call it. yet the world as it is, is real enough to me to function in, yet not belong to. sorry, you asked, i answered : ) peace, paul

fascinating post! that said i see vast emptiness no beings no me no anything but then im stupid, so dont blame me peace and happy pancakes

we can and do live in a myriad of worlds created by the infinite imagination of the mind when there is no mind, there is no illusion. pardon my comments I am but a fool.

as i have said comings and goings are the same it is for me to say that i for once know that i dont know this unknowing is without measure there is thunder in the mountain the bright sun is melting the grey cloud no knowledge can be had of the tao that cannot be spoken i am not, it is in this state everything is just as it is only change occurs yet it remains constant (bad word, not time bound) peace and happy pancakes paul

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formless yes in the sense it is ungraspable thought ends, it begins thought begins, its unchanged read my pm peace paul

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HA HA HA HA thank you very funny

breathing is good

simple to say hard to do 1. forget everything you know (but I know so much about meditation!) 2. quit seeking (but I'm just on the verge of finding the Ultimate Truth!) 3. sit quietly its not so easy gents try it

1.forget everthing you know 2.quit seeking 3.sit quietly

agreed this is the dilema to discuss something that cannot be communicated

this means nothing to me, each physical body is a unique genetic print, no two the same. individuality is an idea. "experiencing the universal" is also just an idea.

its really very simple you cannot experience enlightenment because it is not an experience

peace paul kren

welcome, interesting words, (thought), have a strangle hold on the physical organism. thoughts primary purpose is to continue itself. the life force( Tao ) is never old. thought knows it is mortal, but refuses to see this. my .02 worth

i wander through this world like an idiot, not knowing

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you assume there is such a thing as an "individual" ?

i have much respect fot D.T. Suzuki's translations, but for one, there is no enlightenment to fall in and out of. for two, having fallen into the void, you dont fall back.

forgive me but, one doesn't fall in and out of a state of enlightenment

and i maintain there is no such thing as enlightenment can a finite mind strive to be infinite?

learn, yes, learn everyday but without accumulation a taoist loses everyday "being empty, i am filled" forgive me but you seem serious and sincere all the more reason to look into the matter for yourself peace, paul

: )