dawei

Interesting point. I do think there is a frequency which might get setup by the difference between what the person knows (holds in) and says (let's out). I was once shown a method to determine any lie... I just choose not to use it.

I'm seeing other beings are involved.. and not just from this realm. Like a Windows 10 Upgrade... yes, Microsoft is from another realm

If we can get an update done, there may be some security and integrity improvements.

At least Chat is back now.

I tend to look at the two related issues of 'truth' and 'trust'. If you could only really depend on one, which would it be? I'm one who favors trust over truth because at the end of the day, I can trust there is a reason for non-truth. How far that trust will extend to the actual person may vary. Meaning, if I have an acceptance that everyone will at some time in their life not want to share something or reveal something or be put in a position to answer something. I trust that their decision to want to hide or lie is likely their business and reason, even if it was something about me. But if I feel that sort of action was to such an extent (over time and frequency) that I no longer really felt I could trust them, then I've got my answer too. I don't accept them less, I just don't need to spend my time around them. Would they have such trust in you like that? The bigger problem is that you will likely hate yourself more than they will hate you..so it may come down to your inability to handle your decision on the matter. And that could eat away at you. This might just mean that your the type which heavily favors truth over trust... not sure, it is just a small working theory I am happy to know which side I like to stand on. And there is nothing to really maintain unless you're the one having the discomfort with it, otherwise you would trust in the decision.

I have not heard of any discussion on that. There is some activity going on to at least update to 3.4.x... IPS4 has some major changes which need to be looked at.

Actually he is Steward+ ... no one has asked what the "+" means yet, so I still have time to try and think up something which sounds really great Welcome

I think there is a combination of suggestions... and the combination is actually the key. Under certain conditions, you can go back and see it for yourself... I think that depends on your destiny... but you are here now and in charge of your present destiny. So it is really asking, is that what you want to really find out, if you=destiny will show it? Added: I guess as a spoiler to why I state the above... I went back to look for myself... I had the same question

This is rather limiting to academic authors supported by publishers.... but I'll give a few links so you can read from some authors that you can find as published books. from here Ni, Link already given for amazon Chan Hinton , link already given for multiple publications Moss Roberts As for Flowing Hands version and others online.. Just print them out. If you like them enough, simply bind them for a few dollars... much cheaper than any book

Very cool I will say that I only tended to focus on the hui yin's movement; either expanding or contracting in sync with the stomach. "Holding Up" is maybe a better way of describing it then 'tensing' but that just may be to help understand you don't just close or tense something; it is 'pulled up' in my view in reverse motion of expanding. I found it too me a while to truly pull it up. Many times I thought it was moving but it was more like my action was attempting to close the anus instead. There was tension going on, not movement. The Hui Yin will literally move outward and inward. It just takes some time to find that exact muscle as part of the breathing and get it to regulate exactly with the breath and stomach. Even after a long breath, I tested again and found it was not moving and after a few tries got it moving again. Maybe it's like wiggling your nose... my wife can't do it (can't connect to the muscle to move) but it seems rather easy for me.

a few more thoughts: The LDT will only hold so much Qi so it is important to NOT over do the filling. It will naturally want (and need) to move on. What one guards against is it trying to move down the body... ergo, the spine is the backdoor it should use. So some will sit cross legged to help that flow. I personally never did it cross legged and maybe why I relied more on visualization of movement and the perineum. To be fair, there are several on this forum which espouse the MCO in a more natural flow; not using visualization or directing. I'd rather those folks share ideas about that method and you could start another thread if you felt to find out about that.

Just to clarify: Microcosmic Orbit The only criticism I can offer towards Yang's books is that he tends to repeat stuff from previous books. That Google E-book seems to really be two books in one. The first linked book I provided plus this one: Tai Chi Chi Kung. So this E-book will probably be better as it will share more info, particularly so forms and movements which is a good balance to MCO. Yes, i know that some mention stopping but I think following the natural cycle is best at first and for a while. And consider 15 minutes of only LDT filling prior. Two ideas, assuming you do NAB. 1. Inhale deeply to LDT; Exhale freely (without thought or intention on the Qi). If the LDT fills enough, it will want to being to find the path on its own, which will be up the spine. Having primed your LDT, it may seem to flow easier too. 2. At first, you are just filling the LDT as above but after several minutes begin to visualize the space compressing down into a golden light ball or pearl. When you feel this pearl is sufficient small, start the MCO and move the pearl through the MCO. This might help you not think too much about sensation or not; just move the pearl. When done, finish in the LDT and with several deep breaths into the LDT, let the pearl expand back out and freely go. Lack of buildup is my first thought and my above comments are meant to offer some ideas.

First I want to recommend a book which can be bought for very cheap on amazon: Chi Kung by Dr. Yang Jwing-Ming I followed his method which you can also read some here , including the role of the perineum. There are various ways of doing the MCO (based on number of breaths and NAB vs RAB) and what you describe is not covered by Yang... but I've seen it before, like here, Yu Li Qigong. Your method sounds to do NAB in a single breath as: Inhale - Breath in [stomach expands] on the way up on to bai hui, Exhale - breath out [stomach contracts] on the way down Yang's single breath NAB is: Inhale - Breath in [stomach expands+perineum expands] on the way down to the LDT, filling it, and settling at tailbone Exhale - breath out [stomach contracts+perineum contracts/closes] on the way up to bai hui, Yang's double breath NAB is slightly closer to yours (his second breath is close to your single): Inhale - Breath in [stomach expands+perineum expands] on the way down to the LDT, filling it. Exhale - breath out [stomach contracts+perineum contracts/closes] move Qi and settle at tailbone Inhale - Breath in [stomach expands+perineum expands] on the way up to upper back Exhale - breath out [stomach contracts+perineum contracts/closes] on the way over the head to eyebrows Yang's RAB in a single breath is: Inhale - Breath in [stomach contracts+perineum contracts/closes] on the way up to bai hui over head to eyebrows Exhale - breath out [stomach expands+perineum expands] on the way down to the LDT, filling it, and settling at tailbone Considerations: 1. In the RAB, the main difference is the stomach action is reversed and the inhale sends the Qi up the back. 2. The perineum, if used, should be viewed as an extension of the stomach movement. If stomach expands, then just treat the perineum as part of the 3-D expansion with it just at the bottom. When the stomach contracts, the perineum closes. It can be tricky as you may think it is moving but it may not be. It is like a muscle and I spent a lot of time using my hands to verify if it was truly moving or not. 3. The perineum movement helps to keep the Qi moving in the desired direction instead of going down the legs. 4. The two breath method NAB helps to 'prime' the LDT with Qi so there is a buildup brought to the tailbone; this buildup then follows the second breath. Because the second breath is inhaling [stomach and perineum expanding], the Qi doesn't have much force to direct it, so the buildup supplies it. 5. The one breath method NAB also leverages the idea of a LDT buildup of Qi. This has the advantage that there is buildup of Qi AND on exhale the stomach and perineum are contracting to aid in moving the Qi along. 6. The RAB uses the contraction to assist with guiding the Qi in the upwards direction. In my experience... - The role of the perineum is important to help guide and close off any potential downward movement of Qi. I always viewed it as part of the stomach and treated everything as either expanding or contracting. So I didn't really view the perineum separate, although it took some time to bring them together as one in my thought and practice. - I started with the 2 breath. I liked the slowness and the buildup and the focus I could keep with guiding and moving it along. - Buildup is important. If I were to start doing a 1 breath NAB which started with going up the spine, I'd likely want to do at least 15 minutes of LDT Filling at first. That should give sufficient pressure and power to have inhales moving Qi up the spine without the aid of the perineum. To answer some of your original questions (my opinion): - If you lose the sensation, keep going. If you wait too long in one spot, your mind has also put a halt to something which it was previously telling to undergoing a pattern of circulation. It is always circulating anyways, so mostly what you develop is the ability to sense the Qi in its flow as you work out some obstructions. - I also had areas of feeling it more vs less.

I have two questions first: 1. How many breaths do you do to complete one circle ? 2. Are you doing normal abdominal breathing (NAB) or reverse abdominal breathing (RAB) ? If you don't quite understand the second question: When you inhale, is your stomach expanding or contracting ? Ok... three questions: 3. What role does the perineum play, if any? Is it in sync with the breathing or not a part of your practice?

"nondual" is still a mind comparative based on reasoning and reading. How do you directly experience Dao?

Welcome

Yes, great questions and issues. And I think Apech rightly comments and touches on important considerations which I'll try to add to. We exist in a shared space and presence and yet we cling to individual perceptions, desires and seek some sort of individual experience; and yet we want to share that experience too on some level. What connects us is not so much the face value of our humanity but universal energy. I could go further than that but that is enough for now. We lose sight and sense of the energy integration and then within a particular lifetime, we find ourselves responding to the call of it. So not only are we 'different types' but we at 'different levels' for the very reason we aer along a 'different unfolding point' of past lives. It is very true that we could put 10 people in the same room, as we did in Medical Qigong clinicals, and have each one scan a person and we can get 10 different (although some will strongly overlap) explanations of sensing, feeling, knowing, intuiting what they felt [in the exchange]. And that brings me back to the issue of the spared space. There is transmission of energy going on everything all the time. So while one can do 'practices' to feel energy, I tend towards keeping the exchange of energy as the base concept. Thus, you can double your experience doing energy work in pairs or groups and then progress to large trees (for example). My personal path and recommendation is that one should find what they seem drawn towards. Likely there is something which interests you, whether more philosophical or personality-wise and there is likely a tradition you might like better based on that. I would agree that feeling energy is actually really easy. I once taught the opening Taiji class to acupuncture students who complained that they had just finished Qigong for six weeks but it was all about 'animal movements' and they still didn't feel energy that much. I told them we'd go outside to a very large tree and do some pairs work and then 'meet the tree'. Long story short: We scanned the tree by walking around it and every one of them said the same exactly location as the most dense or subtle. The pairs work helped them exchange energy (bi-directional transmitting and receiving) with focus; moving to the tree was really just another 'pair' to work with. Getting back to our unfolding point: I've meet lots of folks who are gifted and have tremendous levels of either energy, magic, psychic, healing, and/or light energy abilities. Some have it at birth. Do we say that is it not fair that they have never "done the hard work" to get there? If you accept the unfolding point of past lives, it just means they did the hard work in the past lives. Also, if you flip to a high level now, is that unfair to someone still going after 40 years who can't yet get to their tradition's signs? On a certain level, maybe it is natural to compare, and I include the fact that we have a healthy use of competition too. But the fact is, where any one of us is, is simply a part of our destiny. So, as we are all different individuals and different levels, and different past lives unfolding, we can share in the shared space and presence of each other. There may be some struggle to have an exchange free of traditions as that becomes an attachment of singular belief instead of simply the path we are on. My hope is that we could talk free of traditions but the challenge in this has been mentioned by others too.

I would think why and that are linked on some level. My first thought is whether it is better to just fix thoughts towards positive thoughts or just be without a side on the issues... more like completely acceptance of this or that.

Why don't you give this practice a try and report back in that thread what you experience. The practice has energetic support built into it. http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/40426-primordial-fire-mediation-preliminary-foundation-practice/

Perhaps it's just a matter of what causes us to choose to look and focus our attention

Well, it already started here I'd be willing to pin a topic which helped direct a new member onto more topics than just an intro... so we can welcome them further. And maybe MB's welcome [approval] can invite them to this area to share some more and that might stimulate them to tackle the larger areas too. I'm not saying this area is going to be a successful outcome, but I was willing to give it a try and see where it goes.

That's a great start And that is very similar to how I would of described my path before I even knew it was a path.

Dao sounds completely outside of you... how about the Dao-within aspect ? I personally do hold to the Dao as 'guiding principle'... but how has it guided you? BTW: Welcome and thanks for starting a thread

particularly if they don't even know what a definition for 'vehicle' is

Split this off from another topic... My original point was mostly that there are generalizations and there are absolutes. The original comments that I commented to were more absolutes. Generalizing would of been better. As to smoking... I really just mean that there are so many variables that we could also find a study which shows drinking water is bad for you. I am sure smoking affects most people's lungs but who is to predict whose lungs are affected more or less. Ergo, people are free to smoke and damage their lungs in the process... maybe they'll live to their 90s. Yes... gotta love data. Nothing is more exact and yet further from the truth at times. Always depends on what the data is about.