dawei

I get 5 is half or so open... some obstructions exist.

I am happy for the thread to continue. One of the better threads. There is a saying about opinions, everyone has one. Your allegiance to your teaching is what makes people respect you. Your calling anyone out who doesn't agree produces a problem. There is a common ground for discussion. You certainly know, I have always been a supporter of your presence here. I hope we can keep to topic.

There are smokers into their 90s... so False. There are always outliers. I study data for a living. Lies, damn lies, and Statistics... We can discuss without falling into some generalizations... I know some may be unavoidable.

I don't think some generalizations like this really help the discussion. It is likely probably that some practices can make people sick; that some internet seminars are scammers. I think until one actually tries it themselves, they cannot know how to fully judge it... or at least several have reported issues, etc.

~~~~ ADMIN NOTICE ~~~~ We can disagree but your ever-present desire to insult other's traditions/practice/path veers far from the kind of exchange we would otherwise welcome at TDB. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I used to believe and follow that idea... that local perception just lead to another level of understanding. But I think it is a useful concept for a given level.

In my experience only... Our senses know Dao as a guiding principle.. However much one tries to understand it (in nature) or align to it (in practice or it naturally comes) is still only 50%. Heaven and earth don't talk with words but with energy. We can tune into it. IMO, that is still just part of the 50%. The rest is beyond our senses because what we perceive and experience is but an echo or shadow for the benefit of the manifest world. I think for some, they focus on quieting themselves (meditation) or through other energy and/or spiritual practices, are connecting to the deeper, primordial aspects of Oneness or Emptiness. I can't really speak to these as they are not my path but this is my assessment and observation. All I can say is that beyond the 50% is pure interconnection of not just collected consciousness (yes, you can connect with another person's consciousness) but the basis for Singularity (including time-space wrapped on itself). I would not claim to know the void as I don't know what that even means, but I suspect what I describe is but another echo or shadow.

It doesn't take words to get there. And it is not the void. It is simply beyond our senses and yet within ourselves. Until the veil is pulled back and the interconnection of what Dao represents reveals itself within, it will just be non-sense.

I always liked what my wife once told me. Chinese can present you with five characters and the sentence has ten meanings. What is said is only half the story; Then other half lurks in that realm where nothing was said..

Carry on as you want. LZ was born a human. His past life, like all of us, accumulates something... of human existence... like each of us. The accumulation does finally effect something in each of us... That is when it gets really interesting... no more "following" is needed...

Hi Junko About 20 years ago my assistance coach in soccer told me, "your teaching method is so Zen". I said, "What's Zen?". That lite a candle in me to understand his comment... and I meandered through Buddhism [close but resistance felt], and then Zen [a strong affinity and long relationship of laughing at text after text].. and suddenly moved on to find Laozi [finally felt a home]. But the Zen phase still sticks with me at times... here is one story. You may know the story of Hui Neng and the monks arguing about the 'moving flag'... was it the flag moving or the wind moving... and Hui Neng said: "It is not the flag that moves, or the wind that moves. It is your mind that moves." I was explaining this to my friend back then and he just didn't really get it... till one day he was driving me around... I said, "Take a left"... he said, "you want me to take a left HERE". I said, "it is not you taking a left nor the car taking a left, but your mind taking a left..." At that moment, he laughed till tears came out of his eyes and he couldn't stop.... I asked him what he understood and he said, "I don't know... but deep down, I understand". Such is Zen Spirit

Sorry to hear that interpretation. The Sage is a man and is mentioned as well... as following Dao. That is what I commented on.

It is a Way towards an understanding of the true self and Dao. It is but one of 10,000 Ways. Some follow natural ways. Practice is a forceful way but the most common. I find you follow a more natural way but a prescribed path... more a middle way.

that could be a misinterpretation. They are one and the same. To separate them is simply to give a nod to dualistic thinking. A person's level of clarity, realization, and connection will have an affect. The question I got was more from one where nature is understood.

I would say yes in the sense that nothing separates us from the guiding principle. Flowing Hands Transmission: 23: When you are at one with the Dao, the Dao welcomes you. When you are at one with virtue, virtue is always there in your heart. When you are at one with loss, loss is experienced willingly. CHAPTER 26 When one is full of Dao, there is stillness and peace. When one is empty of Dao, there is disorder and unrest. The Sage resides forever in stillness and peace, therefore he is full of Dao. Though there are beautiful things all around him, he remains at one and unattached. When there is disorder and unrest, the Dao is lost; stillness and peace give way to loss of control. 32: Once things are broken up and divided, the whole is lost. Then the parts are given names. When things are given names, their purpose in the whole structure is lost. Men should avoid giving things too many names, and look more closely at the whole. For the Ten Thousand Things are part of one on-going, flowing structure. Men are part of this also. 38: Confusion always arises when the Dao is lost, people then must find something to replace it. 66: Why is it that man always turns away from his natural path? Because he has lost his uniformity and balance with nature. 74: Man has lost his link with nature, he has made too many laws,

Dao=Way or Guide or Principle [as basis and to follow] Put that together as: Guiding Principle or The Way to Follow I've always appreciated your insistence on these above verses which distinguish Dao from Singularity as it is a good reminder that Dao is not the Singularity and does not exist. Thus what one can 'lose' is being at one with the guiding principle...

I didn't want to interject too much as it seems to stray from the OP... but I provided a link which seems to touch on your point: I will say that my very basic and limited understanding of Brahman is more like ultimate reality... and that is not Dao. instead, Dao is more like the principle or basis of ultimate reality. I think that my link suggests Brahman is more like the "One"... thus, it could not be synonymous with Dao. But I will accept if I don't understand Brahman correctly or the link.

We look at whether the 'introduction' post suggests they are here for the right reason... Staff spends a tremendous amount of time on new registrations... filtering out puppets, trolls, spammers, etc. We try to give the benefit of the doubt.

Here is an interesting paper on Dao and Brahman. On page 28 is a novel use of DDJ42 to compare them. http://sino-platonic.org/complete/spp252_dao_brahman.pdf

the background to the idea comes from the fact that we have a high rate of members with less than 5 posts... and they disappear forever. So this was thought up to be a safe place for someone new... their threads wouldn't compete with the wide-openness of General or subject to Owner's Permission issues. I'm not sure it's such a good idea but it is the best we came up with

Not sure I followed the entire exchange... but why would 'motion=rest' not be the local mind saying they are the same, too?

They, like everything else, are doing the bidding of Dao

That is resolved now. Clear history/cache as needed.

Yes... each day we change clothes... nothing really new under the skin... just our minds making some importance sense of such changes. When the mind sees there is really no change... then is there really any thought to be changed

I'm glad you like it... and I'll show you how it works: NOT [ ]