dawei

Ok... so I feel that as I posted some comments that I should report back after some further looking. Lucifer first... my feeling is that angels are playing out a part in the human drama. I found a very different feeling when considering "Lucifer" and "Satan". The former but a name; the latter a symbol (maybe fear). But it seems to play a part in the dualistic framework of our minds. It is not clear that this is an actual being... which makes me now understand why Tom said that. Shugden: I had no understanding of him and did some research to at least get some background. But I get a similar feeling. it is playing a part of the mind mapping but not sure it is something beyond that. They may be 'light' under a mental construct of how mankind has elevated their symbolic nature. But I don't get them as "light beings" they way I would otherwise from a deity.

We've discussed this in the DDJ sub-area... but I finally came to the opinion to take the words very literally: Bu Ren: Not Ren... thus, leaving Ren untranslated but which is a hallmark of Confucian thought as humanness or benevolence. Thus: Not [Enter anything you can conjure]

Interesting about the northeast. I've read more about the southern barbarians in Chu where the Guodian Laozi comes from. In K.C. Chang's Art, Myth, and Ritual. And Cook and Major's Defining Chu. Mark Edward Lewis in Sanctioned Violence in Early China talks about the Yellow Emperor/Wife and Chi You in relation to shamanism. This puts it more north.

Can you fix the link... not getting anything.

Then re-read 3 or 4 times...

For me, this is just trend analysis... hopefully based on some loose form of data. To be fair in context, Daeluin talked about the "process of reversal" and seems to me to want to suggest the focused practice issues. Is your bakers dozen among that? My point is... let's not be so quick to criticism another issue going on here.... but stay with the quotes we respond to

Marty is not among the field... that is his free-spirit side. Find five things positive about him... then you'll stop looking at the surface problems. I usually fall on a socio-communist test of political leanings.. but I find he says lots of stuff which are the issues which need to be dealt with. My chinese wife also likes him. This doesn't mean we like him for president but let's at least see what he is raising as issues.

I now see that Brian said it all very succinctly... Our source is Light... so we are beings of Light... but varying degrees of O.P.A.R.I. Edit: Sorry.. Spotless said it first I only mean to say that one's degree among the mix is the "Light Level" I refer to. That is why I can ascribe someone to Light Level 6... which is technically not Light Level.

If it is buy one, get one... my wife will be all over it Welcome Cool Ranch

I'll first start by saying that these are great questions and I'm not the one to really answer them... but I'll give some comment. I guess I should try to give some basis for my use of "Light Level". It is an essence of being, not seeing but can contain the latter and more. One can be Light but not realized. One can be Light but not a deity. Light is to my very limited experience part: Openness (as a connection), Perception, Awareness, Realization, and Integration... Should I call it O.P.A.R.I. instead of Light? who knows. I found that once one goes light, there is an internal calibrated sense of Light Level. I found it to basically be 8-25 in human form. I've tested it almost a hundred times with other light folks and I seem to be calibrated at 99.9% accuracy. I stumbled on Plato as I got his human and spirit sides as two readings and had to sort it out. I'm not sure I can really spell out the difference but it is similar to that silly saying about pornography: I know it when I see it; when it is in my presence, I can know what is light or not. A little looking online seemed useful and this person uses "Light Language" in a sense I am not saying but it is a catchy phrase, but there are some great words: http://www.weare1inspirit.com/what-is-light-language In my Light level, she is 6... but trying to talk about a level she doesn't exist at... so her framework is not what I am talking about. Another: https://judysatori.com/free/connection-to-spirit/part1/ Same here... A Light Level 6... but trying to describe Light... She is still describing the 3rd dimension human existence with echos about "Love"... If we just contrast the highest levels as primordial or empty... I don't know this one... I will have to visit. I have definitely heard of this one and will have to visit I do agree as our original source (or return to source aspect)... but when we look at the sunlight we see the similar light, color and feel the warmth. And a rainbow (or prism) reveals a band of colors. We can talk the singular experiences and we can talk the band of levels... but I accept our levels, our experience, our journey and destiny are not the same outcome in any one lifetime. I am sure I didn't really answer much but I tried to share my thoughts

I usually agree with most everything you say but not this. And if one doesn't know the difference between light and non-light beings then they would not know how to avoid some of the issues you have mentioned. Our use of "Light" may be different but for me it is a level which can mostly be equated with deities.

The wind blows but it does not require my faith... and there goes Karma on its way too...

Hi Jetsun, I wanted to thank you for starting such a thread. Other threads have seen mocking and mis-information from folks who don't even know what they are talking about. I'm glad to see this one. I sense one main point of your topic is, how to know if your not being deceived in your merge or connection. I've not considered this but I think it is reasonable to discuss. I see some discussion on Yidam but I'm not seeing the relevance so I won't comment on that. What you mention as higher dimensions and subtle beings and spirits is still below the deity level you mention, if I understand your several posts. This I completely agree with and is why I use the division of: Light Being (ie: deities) vs non-light being. I only connect and/or merge with Light Beings which are synonymous with your mention of deities. I have explored other lower beings and lower dimensions (forgive my saying 'lower' as I start from above and you start from man and so say higher). So you seem to ask whether the lower beings/spirits can infiltrate a deity and then deceive one merging with a deity? I tend to make a divide of Light Beings vs non-light beings... but it can be Deities vs non-Deities. If you have visited the dimensions of Deities, the power is presence. And I will say there is often a return party to 'check you out'.... well, that is my experience.

Done

BTW: I an exchange with Sean, he said the Monkey graphic caused a kind of double look too at first... and then realized that this was exactly the kind of mischievous fun that monkey's are known for... So who gets the last laugh

Done. This only affects your display name.

And what is on a shaman's head?

I asked before if you had any visitation... and you still have no experience to share. Be well with your practice.

They are... but you don't know it because you have no direct experience.

The problem is I used the word 'Spirit' but also two other terms to reflect the kind of spirits I refer to... you used Spirit as a translation of Gui (which I would translate as Ghost) and you have thereafter kept referring to Gui and Ghost. You just missed my point of what I referred to which was never ghosts.

Maybe this discussion should move here: http://thedaobums.com/topic/22407-the-dao-de-jhing-is-a-shamanistic-treatise/

It is good you made this clear as you mix up what was said before with now saying 'spirits' which can cover a lot of ground. With experience, one knows the differences they are interacting with.

--- Topic Split on Internal Fire Practice here --- http://thedaobums.com/topic/40423-internal-fire-practice/

For someone afraid of spirits you have an awful lot to suggest regarding Lord Lao and the Three Pure Ones as 'not so cool'. You are talking from your tradition/teaching and that is ok; your teaching can be what it is. But without direct experience akin to those in Daoist tradition who had spirit teachers, you're just talking outside of your tradition and teaching. Your tradition boundaries don't allow you to see what is the full spectrum of Dao[ism]. There is nowhere Dao is not.

Two times in two days I am multi-quoting you and responding... must be the rain in Orlando Nice summation. You clearly see the unfurling.... but then what happens next? I'm not sure if your juxtaposing that with conditioned [modern] man who is generally absent the wild, exuberance, natural zest for living... But the man who possesses a similar carefree absence of human distractions does seem rather a dull hat, mindless to the world and without any 'happiness' (to borrow from 3Bob's thread ). Ok, good point... so should man either not "try" to practice or are they just more natural when threatened or desperate? What are you enamored with now? So you clearly see the unfurling 'playing out'... and yourself among the masses. I am certain there is something more to this story of yours... and it is quite fascinating... even the 'sadness' aspect. I feel you're just at that edge that is beyond just unfurling.