dawei

Interesting point Seems this ties into the Zen story about (1) Mountains are Mountains; (2) then not Mountains; (3) then once again are Mountains. If one gets stuck in their own 'high level of self-realization' at the (2) second stage then their spiritual factor has lost the humanity factor...

I would say it was an awareness of Heart Qi spreading outward... In Daoist terminology, the heart is the Supreme Commander... what it commands is a journey of discovery You can try to focus on that area but be very careful... if you feel any pain at all, then shift your focus to a smile on something like the sun and transfer it else where. With time, you can then connect that lower and middle energy areas... and eventually higher too. Nice to hear about your practice

It seems to me even in daoist traditions, the spirit relates to both the heart (MDT) and head (UDT)... you can find 100 links and never solve the varied use.... well, that is at least my experience. But there is something fundamentally very deep about the idea that the chinese word "Xin" means 'Heart-Mind'... that there is an inseparable connection. I think we would be remiss to not also then see the connection between the three dan tians... but why stop there, also the seven chakras. We can explore these energy centers/containers are separate entities but when we explore them as fundamentally combined and a unity, then something new arises. The word 'Xin' seems to be an obvious hint in that direction. I just want to give a shout @Jetsun... I think that was a great post

Interesting topic... I would call it vibration before the One. And I'm not sure One returns to anything.. One is manifest... but in my cosmology so is Dao; they essentially arise together. Dao is the law accompanying how and why the manifest world works and is. You can't apply Dao to the infinite consciousness which brings everything into being. Why? Because there is no karma at that time... ergo, no Dao. Dao can only describe the manifest world of things. Dao is only eternal in reference to Time; Time ushered in with the One... ergo, all three usher in together. On one of my many visits to China, I was in a monastery and suddenly the first line of the DDJ jumped out at me as: Dao is the rule stating how singularity becomes multiplicity: Dao Ke Dao Fei Cheng Dao DAO (unity) once Dao'ing (unfolding) is no longer DAO (singularity)

The last few posts from this thread were moved to a more applicable thread: http://thedaobums.com/topic/39751-mind-transmission-and-tradition/ I am hoping we can discuss that line of inquiry there.

I did talk with someone about historical issues regarding this. Unless we deem this spamming or advertising for commercial purposes, it has been the position to let members put images in their signature. I do see that KenB slightly modified his signature and I appreciate that gesture. Sean did post this for folks to be able to write something about their website: http://thedaobums.com/topic/37747-do-you-have-a-blog-or-a-website/

Here you go http://thedaobums.com/forum/450-centertime/

Just lost my response... so will respond here: I think there is a degree of truth to this but it doesn't touch the insulting language launched against this site. But as that is not your website, I won't comment more on that. So the real reason some of this occurs may be out of both of our control. Neikung has posted 80 posts in 8 years. I personally don't think this was meant as an insult but a warning; that to properly check a student's progress, the teacher/master needs to be at a proper level himself. How else can they be qualified to check a student? This is a simple fact that most folks overlook. I can attest to having benefited several times from someone qualified to not just check but fix (and I mean energetic fix) something I had done incorrectly in forms/practice, etc. It is in people's nature to slow down when passing a car wreak too... so it is not just Mo Pai flame wars which attract attention but it is one of the top ones. I think reactions on both sides have been a bit extreme and the solution would be for folks to just keep driving on. This is hard to compare as yours was an off topic joke and his was a serious comment to the topic. I understand if some took it negatively but I don't see any insult in it but a warning, similar to what I hear from teachers. Yes, it was likely more personal than necessary but I don't see it as actionable. He would have to comment on exactly what he meant. The biggest problem, IMO, is the intentional disruption to another's website. As established members, it is completely reasonable for you and Wells to respond to posts but outright, false pretense for joining a forum to defend something taken as an insult is rarely rewarded as a noble undertaken. Particularly if they show no regard for staff. I think the compromise can mostly be found in reasonable discussions.

This deserves the respect of a reply. KenBrace has moved on from this site to be an owner of a few sites. This, in itself, shows a concern to give internet folks a place to share and discuss items of common interest. I would like to respond later but maybe will start a new thread on it.

combined with ZYD comments on JAJ, from whose program I also learned to do a Qi construction for healing purposes... I'd like to hear more. There are two sides to healing: 1. There is a natural desire among all species to offer healing 2. We can't heal everyone and everything In-between this coin is a myriad area of gray. Those on a path for healing should seek more understanding from all possible techniques.

This would also be interesting to hear more about

No surprise it is yet another recommendation on how to moderate this forum... http://thedaobums.com/topic/36711-forum-terms-rules-improvement-suggestion/

Let's just say he was the more "reported" member in recent history

funny that the one I remembered the most wasn't in your list

That's my point... your separating them... let them merge as singularity.

Why? Politics is just a level of care.... think parent... or even self. Shouldn't we expect wisdom to creep in?

Ok, past posts mentioned: SELF: The 'self' is the most important theme of the DDJ, it is what limits us in our understanding of the world around us and a huge obstacle to the awakening of realization. Li Erh talks about the self very often and it is referred to multiple times by default. It is the underlying understanding that runs all the way through and it has nothing to do with Buddhism, it has everything to do with realization based on a shamanistic culture of understanding of the world around us. Connecting. We are no better than any other life form, but we use and abuse other life forms like they belong to us to do this. We entrap them, we have no respect for them, they are simply food in a burger, or the object of our testing of chemicals or drugs. We no longer go out and hunt our food, make good use of all its body and give it respect that it deserves. The self no longer understands this fundamental equality of life. So this is understanding the self in relation to the Tao. Relate yourself to life and its course and walk along with it but remembering the fundamental equality and value of life. This is the first understanding. From this we go further. 2 & 3 I will answer later. Remember wu wei is active intent not non action." "So we start off with the view of equality and value of life, this is sacred. When one is in a mental state that is at one with everything, one sees with the heart, not with the eyes. One feels the energy and oneness of the world and what connects all things. One cannot see the essence of the Dao but one can feel it through the passage of heart cultivation. The most important words of the DDJ are 'Dao Xin.' Getting to this state is part of the process of self cultivation. It is a very difficult path that really needs an Immortal to teach properly as it can be dangerous. FEMALE PRINCIPLE: Yin; black, female, shade, soft, yielding, nurturing, deep, infinite................. add to the list at will! Wu: female shaman (nu wu) dancing holding feathers Taoist magic; female giving birth to life The grand ultimate: Female, soft overcoming the hard. The Dao is female/ it is the female principle, but within this there is male principle. So the Dao nourishes life and the male principle fires up the life to take its form according to its environment. From the female came the male, the Dao is female in principle. From nothing came something. Li Erh says it many times. The female principle is linked to all of the other four. Without real love, a love and understanding for all things one cannot realise true enlightenment. Without altering and understanding the 'self', one cannot realise true love. In finding true spiritual love one must apply the female principle to ones life. All five themes are related but we have not really touched properly on the female principle. When I mean the Dao I don't mean just the 'way'. I mean the path of the heart; 'Dao xin' that leads us to enlightenment and ultimately to Immortality. Dao xin cannot be taught, it is a long journey of many years of practice. Dao xin can be shown or taught by an immortal; they will help you to become enlightened. These things are part of the true understanding of the DDJ which we have not really touched on. I once said on here that the DDJ is a complete works, it can teach anyhting you want to know but it requires complete dedication and understanding. Some female principles and words used in the DDJ. Dao Xin is the ulimate understanding of all the five themes and more, but lets carry on with practicle examples of this. 'Bearing yet not posessing'. A female principle. The female gives birth to the next generation, most species, certainly not all nurture them and help them to be able to survive. We can love the world or anything else, but we have the knowledge that it must follow its own course. Now we are getting into 'wu wei'. Wu wei is a female principle. And where does wu wei come from......the female shaman......bearing yet not posessing. ---- While I was previously head-long to move through the five principles, I found the second principle arise within: The female-energy-aspect. The past posts said: The 'self' is most important and the 'female principle' is the key to link to all the others. Can we continue this discussion? What more can you say?

Ok. fair enough. Let's get back to an important topic on the Five Themes of the DDJ: http://thedaobums.com/topic/24162-five-important-themes-of-the-ddj/

That's actually kind of funny as I respect Mopai and would join a group if it was not so openly hostile.

Hi Ken... nice to see you opening yet another website. Hope that gains interesting I think Jetsun has really explained most of this, here and in the other thread. I think as you know, what most members really see and remember is about 10-20%. In the back-end, we have all the documentation needed over the years. The insulting, belittling, spamming, etc is well noted. And he had a staff member friend who tried to help and communicated with him, and this is documented as well... I could say more but I'm not sure what that really do to improve this situation as most will only see what they want to see or what they saw and that is the picture they paint. This is emphatically wrong. You really know nothing about this, it seems. Your saying this much already shows it. I'd really stop while you are way behind on understanding any of this. It is all documented... including his PMs to folks. This again shows a complete lack of understanding of overseeing a website and the history which is documented on members who come here to insult not just the members but the entire community. Narew needs no explanation. He said it all himself. It is all documented. As well as all the puppet accounts attempted. This alone is most damaging. TDB is not a place to come and play out conspiracy theories or be a martyr to some cause. You'll find 10,000,000 other websites for that. If someone comes here to share their journey, path, practice, and life experiences, ups and downs, and asks questions and gives their own insight to topics of interest... then they will likely find this site welcomes them and they might find some common ground with others.

~~~ ADMIN NOTICE ~~~ I'm sure this was not the fairest split... but the topic is Mopai. The tit for tat goes here: http://thedaobums.com/topic/39893-splitpit-from-mopai/

Based on past conversations, the interview and this topic... I've come to see that we share a very similar view of the order of these issues. I just struggle to articulate this as it is not the traditional account most mention. As well, it seems to go against Laozi 42: Dao begot One; One begot Two, etc. Spirit is not Spirits which include deities and immortals which come later... as part of the vibration like Dao? I will italicize below where I quote you. I now understand that this is your ordering. You have previously mentioned Spirit as the force behind everything including 'mainfest Dao'. Spirit/One: The 'spirit that Li Erh is eluding to I think is the very essence that has created all things. It is present all around us and in us, it has made all things. No not like Christians, they believe that one God made all things. I beleive that something created the beginning but it is that that makes Gods and Immortals what they are. At the very beginning, and this is the One, there came a small vibration within the darkness. Now if it is possible to imagine, something so thin, anti matter, so to speak, billions of years ago. The vibration is the One that Li Erh is describing. As this vibration became stronger over the millions of years, heat was produced. With heat came pressure. So its like blowing up a car inner tube, but the inner tube won't expand, put enough air in it and it will explode, bang! When the first vibration happened so Dao was created, for as soon as there was something from nothing and I mean nothing then the order of all things started. Dao: The universe is bound by the Dao, so it must obey the laws that have created it (we are learning more about this also). The Dao is the great creator of all things, so it is itself and is natural. Remember, like the big bang we can't really know why and how things came into existence although it was explained to me. Do you place the levels of spiritual beings, entities (other than deities, and immortals) as part of the Ten Thousand arising? P.S. If you wish me to set this up as another thread instead of in this verse, let me know and I can do that.

What is 'life'? I think if you define 'life' correctly, you'll see your answer.

I know I've asked this before and will just try again How do you explain the ordering of Spirit and Dao? On one hand, I can see many following a Laozi explanation as: Dao begot One/Unity; One begot Two... Aside from the usual Yin-Yang, the two could be Immaterial/Spirit and Material/World. But my question is rather: Do you see Spirit and Dao arising essentially together or one before the other?

I've been thinking about this comment on the three great powers. I find this a better list than the more conventional Heaven, Earth and Man... but they may not relate. Livia Kohn mentions: - the three basic forces in human as; spirit, essence, and energy - three basic universal energies—mysterious, primordial, and original - the Three-in-One constitute the body of the true sage A lot is made of 'three in one'. I don't know that your trying to relate to that... Can you comment more on your three powers and if they relate to other conventional Daoist ideas or not.