dawei

'focus' is already putting it somewhere... Letting go is 'nowhere'. How do you connect to deities/spirits/entities? Is that a focus or letting go?

'Speed of Yi' is a rather deep and correct answer Most start by following their mind and assume that is Yi and it is on a superficial level... going deeper into the heart will find Yi I am curious why the front is difficult.. I would guess the back is more because there is naturally more blockage... once down the front, one can take a "going home" relaxation.

I learned to treat the perineum as an extension a 3-D expansion; when you inhale (Normal Abdominal Breathing-NAB), expand in 3-D, so the stomach expands that means the solar plexus push upward and the perineum pushes down... all of it moves in singular unison. Are you saying you recommend to not engage the perineum as part of the stomach 3-D expansion?

I simply disagree because 'practicing the MCO' will open it... it may not be as effective or efficient for some but the fact is, it works for some... it is not so black and white. I would warn that one should have as good an idea as possible on what to do... and not really follow what I did which was to just use Dr. Yang's books... which I intuit enough to get me to do it before I meet any teacher. MCO is meditation... properly done, it is a foot in both camps... connecting heaven and earth

So what do you recommend? Do you squeeze the anus & perineum, or one and not the other? Maybe you want to shift into talking about regulating the breathing and the coordination of the root area? I was rather strict in my breathing/coordination with the root area for many years and I now find my perineum is always active. I can only believe it is due to the earlier year practices.

The fact that you feel something means the detachment carries meaning. You may need to figure out what that really means. And you seem to want to make your 'practice' a higher priority than a relationship but you shun the latter and are, to be honest, maybe not just attached to but obsessed with the former idea. Where does the idea that practice is more important than a relationship come from? If it comes from deep within as a kind of destined path, then the relationship would not have as much a meaning. Remember this: Practice is not natural but forced action. Being with another person is very natural. I went through something like this and I found that another person is way beyond practice. I found that in the end, you had better be following your destined path and that might not be as you expected. You might feel that this relationship was creating an either/or and there was not a balance in the way you would like... was that because she objected to your practice or you just slowed it down on your own? Theree are a great many lessons to be learned here... It is nice that you reflect on it enough to want to understand it

Interesting topic and 'perception'... namesake does you well the topic is 'guru' but I wanted to say I've seen some non-guru(s) reflect better than guru(s)... that is another topic There are really too many layers and levels among all things; our desire to compartmentalize and distinguish is a good thing within the world of senses... I know it goes beyond that at times. But I'll try to stay on topic. The Guru is at a level... that is the transmitter/conduit; The receiver is also at a level and that varies much more than the Guru(s), IMO. So we already have a 2 dimensional issue which goes to a 3rd level when we introduce the interaction/exchange, and a 4th level when we add in the perception/awareness... it just keeps building up to higher levels of variation. I guess this is what I am saying... we should not be so concerned about the level of sender or receiver but find what resonates. There are too many variations. I'll give an example. My Medical Qigong master was quite powerful but there was a mutual [female] friend who was gifted from youth in energy... I could connect with her and get better relief on some issues; on others, the master could exact immediate relief. So there is a level of exchange, connection, and integration... and in some cases there is direct transmission. I personally don't care kindness or emptiness but matters is whether I receive/connect. If I do, then that is the level I am at and I should let flower and seed. We love to compare levels, people, gurus, and experience... and let's continue along that line.. but let's also realize that the next step is that it doesn't matter; what matters is your current experience.

Interesting topic and one I've thought about in the past. Where is your three classes from, did you come up with the assignment? I personally believe what you put as Middle is Low, and Low is Middle. Some of what you have in low and middle belong together and I'm not sure you understand what is Medical Qigong based on these classes as it would fit some of what you describe in the Top Class. Your middle way talks about the problems one encounters which is typical of a 'low way'. Medical Qigong is an integrative and balancing approach; that is why it focuses on 'purge, tonify, balance'. And it is less focused on certain areas (LDT vs UDT) but rather works from 'no-thing' to 'no-thing'; if the practitioner has removed themself from the equation, there is only nature / Dao. I personally don't find that a Low Class. It is interesting that the idea of Wu Wei is absence from mention in all these classes and 'practices'... as Baopuzi said, 'practice is not natural'... so one is engaging in forced approaches in most any class at times. But I think there is an effortless aspect which is overlooked... This is what is truly seldom to come across. I've seen it in many people over the years. It is like the idea when we say something comes to someone 'naturally'; they can just do it. And there is another aspect missing; those simply wired and connected; those who are seemingly reflective of some way which is not reflected in others. This could be more like psychic powers or light connections. This would go beyond seldom to rare... and yet something tells me this was at one time in the past much more normal and natural. Just as is said, when Dao is lost, virtue arises... and here when the natural way [reflective connection] is lost, practices arise to try and get something back... My final thought is this: Everyone is where they are because that is where they belong. That is their present destiny. In this way, we cannot really judge 'low vs middle vs top'. We can only say, this is where they are.

That's where we differ...

Done. This affects your display and the login

And individual identity is a belief. Once you stop seeking or talking about a 'reality', you don't need to think or talk about it... it ceases being an 'it'.

Identity isn't a thing... thus there is no-thing to grab hold of to throw away. And one doesn't become what they already are. I don't view it as the kind of change you seem to imply but rather a perspective or awareness which is revealing its natural clarity.

I think you don't get the point I'm making so I'll try to explain more. EVERY STATE has it... it is universal... anywhere there are laws there are what I speak of... it permeates society and infiltrates ethics and morality and the best decisions made by many... you can't move beyond any 'state', physically speaking... We live in a country which operates by rule of law. Most follow it like an implant. We are all bound and surrounded by this... on a real societal level... This is the manifest world, but we can dis-own our implanted 'contract' to it... How do we dis-own it? I don't really expect you to answer that as your approach is to try to make a rational and logical explanation for existence whereas I am leading towards a manifest vs mystery dichotomy which resolve to Singularity... So my solution is not rational logic but singularity. What I have found is those who truly understand, comprehend, understand their existence don't understand how it relates to Singularity... but those in singularity understand how it relates to duality of Existences and Non-Existence. There are exceptions of course. I work with data so outliers are to my perspective not to be thrown out but understood within the greater framework.

Most everything we do is a part of an invisible social contract... that is my way of saying what I feel you mean by we have no real rights. Every store you enter, any website you go to... there is a unwritten and unspoken contract going on to some degree. We might be desensitized to following it without realizing it or we drift along its wave and cause no disruption.

This has turned into one of the most interesting and meaningless debates which TDB is infamous for... And if I were the referee I would call it a draw only because both sides are right and wrong. It is simply a matter of perspective, awareness, integration, and euphemistic knowledge. There is a kind of interpersonal contract among local inhabitants... who will adhere to a kind of social contract made with your state which has a kind of regional contract made to a region which is a kind of regional contract to a nation... which is a kind of continental contact and a kind of global contract... OK YOU GET IT In my 10+ years of battling christian brainwashing, I did learn a few good ideas... to be "in this world but not be of this world". There is always more than one reality or perspective: And you can integrate them into a whole; and you can see each one for what it is trying to explain; but never attached to any one of them. If your attached to any one idea, your attached. As a disclaimer... some perspectives are share within their boundary of reality and are absolute...

I tend to agree but it is hard to separate the influences on mankind and weapons are one. One can look at China where they don't have gun ownership and say they are generally less severe killings... but then one looks at the result of Australia's gun ban a few years now and saw that crime went up. I don't like statistics at times because, as is well known, there are many reasons for crime... and against conventional wisdom, dead men [historical crime] can tell tales.

I went without one for about 10 years... and then back to it.. and just stopped my cable a few weeks ago. BTW: In the last 15 years, I've not had a working car radio... I can't really understand why one needs such 'noise'. What I have found over the years is that the absence of this 'entertainment' noise has brought some kind of more social and natural voice.

Laozi 69 -- Tr. David Hinton There was once a saying among those who wielded armies: I'd much rather be a guest than a host, much rather retreat a foot than advance an inch. This is called marching without marching, rolling up sleeves without baring arms, raising swords without brandishing weapons, entering battle without facing an enemy. There's no greater calamity than dishonoring an enemy. Dishonor an enemy and you'll lose those treasures of mine. When armies face one another in battle, it's always the tender-hearted one that prevails. ---- 'Enemy' depends on the level of enmity felt on some level... In the Warring State Period, someone like Sunzi or Laozi would want to speak specifically to a 'state' which wanted to annihilate another; For some, an enemy is the guy who just won't let me pass on the freeway I remember in elementary school a really small kid who could never catch the ball so he could be the 'kickballer'... so I would catch them for him and let him have his kick... In middle school a guy who was trying to be the great ego enforcer and bully... I don't really know what but at that time I was very sensitive to the lowly students who where always picked on and beat up. I stood up for them and inserted myself into the issue when it appeared they were being ambushed (if even by one). In another exchange, the would-be bully drew a knife on me... and I stopped, looked at it and then walked forward again to me... as I came closer, he put it away. These ridiculous stories of mine have no end... An FBI agent in a bar in DC... let's forget that story... In one of my more than dozen trips to China, while in an elevator, a guy was beating the shit out of a much smaller friend... I bumped the 'heavy' guy to let him know it wasn't cool... he turned on me like a tiger ready to pounce... I just looked him in the eyes... I can only look back and wonder at both the integrity and stupidity of it all... acting in the moment. Live or Die seemed to compress to inseparability. No Separation Most enemies are just looking for attention; in fact, don't forget, who isn't at times I don't think there is a prescribed action/reaction except for battle plans which are drawn up before anyone has engaged and the minute of engagement the senior staff is quickly trying to revise them... over and over and over... I guess in the end, your response is simply going to be based on where you are on your life's journey. Some step in front of a tank at Tienanmen Square. Some set fire to themselves as a protest. How to deal with your enemies? A really great question... It always depend.... Today, I'd probably follow Laozi idea to fulfill the stomach and not the eyes... Turn away... eat and drink... live another day....

I found it interesting that he describes Laozi by using Confucian quotes... Can you say more?

You really cover several very important points.. all true But I think each person will likely align with one in most cases... but more than one is going to happen too. Yes... maybe this is the 'newbie' experience... Doing nothing is great I'm really free [from responsibility] This has a Zen flavor but I like the point being made... I will concede the importance of this despite my belief in Baopuzi who said 'practice is not natural'... I think there is a role for practice to restore [ziran] naturalness flow. If the training is leading to a more scientific approach then that is fine to apply it... but there is another outcome/path And you nice describe a continuum to a spiritual journey unfolding... not just with nature but with Dao itself. The end analysis, for me... is that none of all of this matters (in the end)... it is a log we keep of our journey; a log book of passing certain points... the end goal [at least in my opinion] is we are simply at ONE with circumstances unfolding. And I will go as far to say that there is a point where the circumstance doesn't matter anymore as that is yet just a stage. All these experiences are meant to dissolve the stages and levels and restore singularity... no separation.

The idea of gain vs loss (I know we're really talking about whether you win or lose) seems to be of a relativistic nature like Yin vs Yang. There are two ways to gain more Yang: 1. Add more Yang (offensive) 2. Reduce Yin (defensive) I think the outcomes of war are similar... you can be in a defensive position which is technically more advantageous and in 'effect' a more offensive position on some level. I think of the scorched earth retreat where you burn anything useful or just draw the opponent into territory and conditions for which they are ill-equipped... now nature has become a part of your regime: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_Winter

I see the two ideas overlapping... brute force is more a singular direct attack of the army; the indirect can employ deceit by smaller groups more easily. My take is simply that the opening lines are introducing a point made by later lines... very similar to LZ style in this way.

I take it to be a reference of the whole army (direct) vs the smaller groupings (indirect). If the whole army is coordinated they are following a single, direct engagement of attack... but if the smaller groups each have a slightly different approach they can take, this would create a sense of chaos to the opponent... how would you know what to expect next or from where. So I think the root meaning is about being flexible (indirect) and not too rigid (direct).

Fair enough point... And I agree with this... and think of it more like 'artful' or 'cunning'. Besides, the sound of "The Art of War" with the three letters of each word is itself an artful wording I also like your point of his not taking responsibility for the reader; I think that is a core method of chinese thinking. it is an expression of what one has discovered and while it may be laid out more clearly then not, the reader/listener is to see what they discover given the same or similar circumstance. My impression is that there is something very circumstantial about the way chinese think and communicate and that leaves a multi-faceted interpretation at times.

I got a little confused as you talked of what milk was creating but then said you gave it up last year... I've looked into foamy urine in the past and found something in relation to proteins and urine ph levels. http://hufferchiropractic.com/how-to-be-healthy/acid-alkaline-foods.html http://www.anaturalcure.com/foamy-bubbly-urine/