dawei

If you asked people if they would like to lose their job... they see no "next step" in sight. It is fearful. In fact, then ask them a year later and they will tell you it was the best thing that ever happened to them. So much self-awareness and general understand come once we are forced out of the cage we build; the cage we call life. I am not trying to justify anything but there is a point of disassociation to suggest what is the way and what is not.

I will say that I find this an apt metaphor for a topic which has 'died' and yet folks can go give offerings (post to a 'dead' topic) and the dead can return (to post in the regular areas once again). But "feeding is not recommended" is not consistent with the idea of the hungry ghosts; they need to be offered food (thoughtful posts) to encourage returning to the living (posting areas). It would only be consistent with treating the Pit/Chaos/Ghost Realm like it was a Trolling Realm. In light of trying to keep topics open, more topics may end up in this area rather than just getting closed. So it is just the place for something to continue... and probably some which we wish would not continue. But that is up to whether folks want to give offerings to dead topics or not.

This is more an experiment and all the way up the ladder, it is of interest to see how it plays out. It has gone through a lot of discussion and there are some concerns over how the use (or misuse) will play out... so we have anticipated some side-effects. The short-term plan is only to allow this in a few select areas to see how it works (or doesn't). There is no long term plan to have the entire forum this way as the software is too coarse for the kind of control/self-control you want. But the outcome will likely contribute towards any future consideration of software it would require to take it to another level. We do plan to roll this out the Buddhist sub-forum area which is probably akin to an area of concern you would have: People invested with too much control and restrict opposing views. But this area is one of the most problematic on the board and there are no solutions but this seems worth finding out if this is a solution in the right direction.

That seems interesting... but would there be a more chinese/daoist equivalent? Sean has been taking the site towards more chinese character representation... so I'm trying to stay somewhat consistent to that.

Yes, 'what's in a name' may matter at times... the area still cannot start a topic and the rules remain the same. I would tend to think that the members know why stuff ends up in the pit. But, also with the newer direction that topics should not be closed (in theory), it seems in line to change the name a little bit.

Play with fire and you get burnt. Follow the natural law of heaven (way) not laws on earth (of man). To extend life, respect life.

Renamed: Hùndùn 混沌 - Primordial Chaos Posts sent to a nebulous state of TDB before heaven and earth. It is chaos for some and returning home for others.

I would say it included: 1. Title... says it all 2. Content... repeated and ranted on title theme 3. Curse words abounding... directly pointing to the reader (seemingly at times, although may not be intended) 4. The history of your posting... I can't expect mods to chase down any 'trip' like posting which gets out of hand. For all of these reasons, the Pit was the best place to let it continue and not worry about the above. As well, those who were replying were very much engaged in the exchange and that felt like it would carry the warm/healing it needed instead of locking it. I will say that staff has taken a slightly new direction in regards to posts: We are trying not to lock anything started by members without really, really strong cause. Instead, we'll consider to lock only to let stuff cool off and re-open... or split out content... or move threads... SO THEY CAN CONTINUE. Is that so selfish and corrupt? I don't think so... I think it is a way to let expression continue and we just find the best place for it. We may not get that correct all the time, but there is a method to our madness

I do agree about the first point of western conceit... that they know everything or want to interpret it in their way sometimes in such a way that it misses the original, real meaning... so the third point is the most interesting one to flesh out. I see a paradox in this... if one were really a teacher of Great Dao, wouldn't they have the insight into the person coming to learn and thus know who to teach and not to teach? Maybe that contains a bit of secrecy as if you decided not to teach someone, you have withheld it which goes against selflessly save all. That's always going to happen... in all walks of life Good point and I agree. Sometimes direct apprehension is good (or needed) and sometimes other methods work better to induce realization. And metaphor within chinese culture is a given but to anyone 'outside', it seems like a puzzle. I generally agree that the texts are simply giving away the secrets for the most part, but one may not be able to unravel it. Nice quote from Baopuzi I once read Pregadio state that another author had the best english translation of the Cantong qi (The Seal of the Unity of the Three), but without explanation of the symbolism it remains almost meaningless to the reader.

Ok... How about "Chaos" ? Hundun 混沌 was semantically extended from a mythic "primordial chaos; nebulous state of the universe before heaven and earth separated" to mean "unintelligible; chaotic; messy; mentally dense; innocent as a child". Semantically, the term hundun is related to several expressions, hardly translatable in Western languages, that indicate the void or a barren and primal immensity – for instance, hunlun 混淪, hundong 混洞, kongdong 空洞, menghong 蒙洪, or hongyuan 洪元. It is also akin to the expression "something confused and yet complete" (huncheng 混成) found in the Daode jing 25, which denotes the state prior to the formation of the world where nothing is perceptible, but which nevertheless contains a cosmic seed. Similarly, the state of hundun is likened to an egg; in this usage, the term alludes to a complete world round and closed in itself, which is a receptacle like a cavern (dong 洞) or a gourd (hu 壺or hulu 壺盧)

If it has a spiritual thought or practice, that is General Discussion If it is anything on your mind, that is Off-Topic If it is healing requests, it is Healing Circle if it is a blog of anything one wants to say, it is the PPD I feel your a bit too focused on the PIT which has been explained what its function is. To stay out of the Pit, it just needs to have some fore-thought in titling and posting.

IMO: I think it grows out of the Xenophobia of the ancient cultures... from that day until today, the derision of the 'foreigner' is still strong among chinese. I think when applied to such things as 'practices', it becomes like a 'best kept secret' which gives one a leg up over a competing group. When applied to more esoteric practices, I think their idea grows stronger as it is a link to the spirits and as such, they are guardians of that teaching, method, way. It is not meant for everyone and only through some proper transmission/teaching/method will it be properly done. And your perspective?

Yes... we were corrupt enough to give you a second chance... and your own Oasis of a PPD Beggars can't be choosers

I see HSG more alchemic than neigong/neidan... I like an attempt to put some boundary to the esoteric neidan. 1. We'd have to now define 'secret'. It seems so much has opened since ancient times... and there was a reason for it being secret. We see this in other chinese culture of Taiji and Daoism... what got kept as secret vs what was allowed to be filtered out. To much has filtered out over time... But I would maybe say this was something originally (selectively and secretly) transmitted master-disciple and usually requires a teacher/master/spirit. 2. Nei: Internal... of course. But it won't be exclusively internal in the end. As was said, everything is connected and by that it will eventually require connection to a spirit/immortal/deity to do the last purification/light transmission. We can think it is 'internal' and so rightly say it is not about breathing external air, but the internal spirit connects with an external one (but as said, they are not really separate in the end). If there is no separation in the end, there is no internal. 3. I might agree with this but it is the goal but 'many are called and few are choosen'. And as few will achieve it, it seems that it is really more about Purification. Those who undertake it, do so to start the cycle towards Transformation /Transcendence. This would simply be Purification. If you don't get to Transformation/Transcendence, then you have at least started walking that Road Less Traveled and your next life is that much closer... 1. Esoteric Origins: Master-Student transmission (sometimes the 'master' is a spirit/deity/immortal) 2. Internal Ingredients: Mind-Body-Spirit transmission with Spirit side 3. Goal: Purification towards Transformation/Transcendence

The Pit is the dumping ground of threads which have not stayed within what we expect of them (title and posts) for community edification. It is the landfill. There is yet another lower level of Dante's seven circles... The Abyss... only staff see the best of the best worst of the worst. TDB is not about just meeting one person's need to express their darkness. If someone thinks we need it here, then they are looking too small. There is an entire internet to try and satisfy ALL needs of online users. TDB is one cog in the wheel which works among forums worldwide. As for the name... Dark Energy, Dark Matter... "The Pit" serves as a reminder of why something got there. It is not intended to be a place to discuss dark matter. What your asking is already available in a PPD... it is your blog space; your haven for saying anything the way you want it. You can have sub-forums named however you want. You control that Oasis. I would lay back on your PPD Island, order your cocktail of choice and write the blog of choice. Bask in your expressions there.

You really want to go there? Too many threads here... but here is one: http://thedaobums.com/topic/32635-which-is-which-qigong-neigong-waidan-neidan/

I've seen some translations by Dr. Yang (Embryonic Breathing book) and they are very alchemic... but only a few chapters. The early translation and commentary by Heshang Gong is as close as it gets. One english translation which is good is Richard Bertschinger. See: MyTaoWorld You might have to write him to see if he still sells it. I don't see it here now... let me know if you can't and you're interested in it... I'll try to find it.

I'd like to hear more too Not sure if you have seen this topic I posted before... but some references may be of interest. http://thedaobums.com/topic/26226-the-influence-of-the-ddj-on-later-daoist-practices/

Exactly... multi-layered. Peeling one back reveals another layer. Some who look at just the Guodian have come to stress the theme of 'rulership'... but that is just the layer which jumps out. They would seem to miss how neidan is rulership; rulership in a way Laozi means... and even Zhuangzi seems to mean. A ruler who gets out of the way by reducing everything inside and outside of himself... he reduces himself to become no longer the ruler. He thus becomes 'unknown'. If it sounds like obscure speak for neidan, then I made my point...

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I've always thought along this line too... sometime like the, De is "Dao in you". Recently I found some of my old notes and I had written that De is the 'transmission of Dao'.

Given the recent thread on Legalism... Do you see a connection?

Kudos for the continued posting... I am sure I've missed a great many great posts Here is how I view it: Anything which 'manifests' is bound by the 'rules/laws' of existence in this reality... Those rules/laws are Dao itself. This is why the phrase 'Dao begot Law' is a well known Huang-Lao concept... and we have the "Legalist" who merged Daoist ideas with their own. So, the spirt/soul/qi , anything of this manifest world is guarded by Dao. This should be an insight into how we need to expand our understanding of Dao beyond the physical aspect to include the immaterial aspect.