dawei

Inner Tranquility The Creation of Dao

Yes... that is one of the great myths/lies which lives on

I think that is what MH is saying... LZ points it out but doesn't really dwell on it as much as he wants to emphasize living/life... We should also remember that Wang Bi really introduces the 'mystery' and metaphysical aspects much more than any previous interpreter. Lest we forget, he was a very young Confucian

Ok. Re-opened.

Your the second person to mention this... it will get re-opened soon... based on request

~~~ ADMIN WARNING ~~~ Enough is enough. This simply continues to degrade an extraordinaire man and system and now say it is not even Qigong. You clearly continue to be frustrated with members here, disregarding their direct experience and knowledge simply incites folks towards rebuttal after rebuttal and makes them frustrated in turn. This borders trolling and baiting from an elitist point of view. Look at the history: Elitism never lasts here as it eventually falls on its own sword. It is time for you to take a deep look if this is the website you want to try and continue interjection yourself into topics you have no experience of and continue mis-information after being corrected several times. this won't be tolerated for much longer. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I posted almost the same thing here http://thetaobums.com/topic/35969-how-do-we-know-whats-yin-and-whats-yang-really/?p=601827

This may not be the direction you want but another similar thread: Taoist Bed Chamber Arts

He replaced unconscious with subconscious

This is an important passage along your path. I won't suggest any Way is better than another but simply follow the path your seem to follow. Herein is the important part: Notice the path; follow the path. unnatural ? Good... now we're getting somewhere Your inner mind and local mind are disagreeing on some point of the path... and your listening to your local mind's desire and wish TO SEEK or NOT SEEK... you have an inner idea which arises but does not make sense... yet. OK... a very strong statement from the mind... that is good to get it out. Think of this as two realms: local and eternal. Your local mind is trying to make sense of an eternal Dao. Your looking from one realm and glimpsing the next and pronouncing what is the understanding within the next.... but from the lower realm. Your not at the next realm yet to fully understand it yet. At the next realm, there is no longer any comparison, path, or pronouncement. You are not making any mistakes. You are questioning what is unfolding in your current position relative to the future/eternal path. Let them come as they will... and let them pass.... Follow your path. Your goal is to follow the path you see in front of you. Daoist? Let's forget the label

As a self-proclaimed Philosophical Taoist... Your in over your head... And you can't get outside your mental construction... of practice... All the above have explanations. 1. Laozi is just an incarnation, like all of us... most well know as Taishang Laojun... so I am already outside of philosophical Taoism... so how can you possibly accept any further explanation on transmission understanding backwards in time ? 2.......... vague? 5,000 years of Qigong... drop the dependence on native scholars and the internet and find someone who you are willing to learn from. 3. Out with the old and in with the new... What smells 'old' each day? Socks. What grows 'new' each day? Hair. Breath in through the crown and out through the heels... Connect heaven and earth... etc.

I think this topic has great insight into a cultural difference and understand it goes way beyond training/preparation. In short; Chinese bodies are generally softer, more flexible and empty. When I was doing Taiji from a Taiwan master, I was going to the 'western class' but he invited me to the 'eastern class'... it was taught quite a bit different due to inherent softness. In sports, look at how early Li Na and Yao Ming retired... Their bodies (in general... please) are well suited for eastern practices but not the rigor of long term western sports. Now... the other great question was: wouldn't western practices be more suited to us? I would answer YES if the goal is more competitive but no if the goal is more balance.

I was actually thinking about posting this topic and surprised to find such an old one on it. I just watched the video in question last week:

Well... if you feel it is too easy here... we can give you a 2 week suspension

Great questions... We are 'ten thousand' and the excuses are ten trillion Jesus said, "many are called but few are choosen"... I wondered for a very long time if how many really understood this Each of us has their own destiny, and today (forget whether time really exists) is between past life and future life. To focus on spirit is to understand past and future; most focus on present without the reference points nor inherent fate. The present condition is... well... less than we had hoped for, in most cases... Why? Therein is the real question.

Interesting point... so how do you explain this?

I know we have talked about this in another thread, but I have held to a shaman wearing deer antlers as the pictograph as that is what makes the most sense to me... Only one other person I knew even remotely held this idea... Here, at TTB, I heard you say this; as a Shaman, I am glad to see such things confirmed.

ZZ - trans. by Legge (ctext) 昔吾聞之大成之人曰：『自伐者無功，功成者墮，名成者虧。』孰能去功與名而還與眾人！道流而不明居，得行而不名處；純純常常，乃比於狂；削跡捐勢，不為功名。是故無責於人，人亦無責焉。至人不聞，子何喜哉？ Formerly I heard a highly accomplished man say, "Those who boast have no merit. The merit which is deemed complete will begin to decay. The fame which is deemed complete will begin to wane." Who can rid himself of (the ideas of) merit and fame, and return and put himself on the level of the masses of men? The practice of the Dao flows abroad, but its master does not care to dwell where it can be seen; his attainments in it hold their course, but he does not wish to appear in its display. Always simple and commonplace, he may seem to be bereft of reason. He obliterates the traces of his action, gives up position and power, and aims not at merit and fame. Therefore he does not censure men, and men do not censure him. The perfect man does not seek to be heard of; how is it that you delight in doing so? I agree this is not about the ordinary man... so it has nothing to do with getting rid of desire of things... it is more like a statement of fact; things do not even have sway over them. If this is a way of practice, then it is similar to saying that Heaven practices its way... So this is not about practice. This is really about the self and wu wei and non-attachment. Not the practice but the living embodiment.

Interesting to re-visit ZZ... but, as Rene points out, the verbosity shows and one could find many, many chapters in LZ which would suggest the same points.

Back to topic please... Chuang Tzu Chapter 3, Section A Take up Wu Wei bickering in a Wu Wei thread.

Ok, to look at the Taoist idea... see: The Encyclopedia of Taoism: 2-volume set edited by Fabrizio Pregadio Tai Yi (The Great One) is the Primordial Spirit which embraces all... And see my topic on The Great One is Not Dao To get to the topic question of where is it stored First: The mind is a part of the heart in classical chinese; Xin means "Heart-Mind". Maybe call it the heart of the mind which communicates with The Great One. But the primordial spirit is stored in the heart. Once we let go of the local-ego-mind, heart-mind gets a truer connection/communication to the spirit. JMO

~~~ ADMIN ACTION ~~~ UnLocked and cleaned up... let's stay more on topic CT has a right to question the opening post which comments "traditions like Dzogchen locate it in the heart" Zoom can answer, if he wants. It seems to me that, as Zoom said later, "Interdisciplinary thinking", is the key... it may not really cross-over exactly in terminology.... or it may. Who knows till we discuss it more. To me, this term is clearly Taoist, but I can't say if any equivalent in other tradition. Talk on.

Words are reference points and are not reality. Zhuangzi spoke against giving any priority to "this" over "that"; neither side of the complement has preference or priority. Thus, no perspective is to be favored or put on a pedestal. To do so would be to stay victim to dualistic thinking and keep one away from Unity/Singularity. Yes, south is an illusion but so is Up. Ancient chinese assigned South as Up. We assign South as Down. It is just relative perspective; both are correct in their frame of reference. I recall the psychology test concerning how images are formed on our retina as upside-down. "In one psychological study, participants were asked to wear inverting lenses - lenses that invert the image BEFORE they get to your eye, so that when your eye inverts it, it's right-side-up. At first, everything appeared upside-down to the participants. But, after a few days, people began to report that everything appeared right-side-up! As a second part of the study, the people were asked to take the glasses off. Because they were now used to the lenses, their NORMAL vision appeared upside-down!! Within a day, though, their vision returned to normal. " I was mostly referring to trying to prove a dualistic perspective as correct or reality. I've pretty much moved beyond duality dependence. I can use the language but for now, the 'travel' you mentioned is where my travels have taken me.

What is it your really trying to say? This is just perspectivism which Zhuangzi rails against. Yes, we need a reference point or position: for a car, the 'right' headlight is from the driver's perspective, not while looking at the car from the front. But in this world, what does it really matter as either view is an illusion. Next thing you know, your going to tell me South is Up. [Added: I see you already commented on this and South is down.... ] A picture is worth a thousand words. Why not create some Youtube demonstrations

Simplicity is a typical translation for the uncarved block... raw simplicity is original, true nature... which is the true self.