dawei

I don't think we can know such things from chatting alone.

I think the use of the word 'divine' was maybe unfortunate as it connotes something which may not be intended.

I have never really liked the idea that Dao cannot be spoken; it is the most spoken of topics here I think you have come closer to what I felt; that it is the eternalness, the wholeness, our connection to the primordial soup from which all came that we cannot quite easily speak about.

Nice tie in Looking at FH's transmission, the lines before ties in his point, when Dao is lost... TTC 38 Therefore when the Dao is lost, goodness and kindness arise. When goodness and kindness are lost, dictatorship arises. These things are the beginning of confusion. Confusion always arises when the Dao is lost, people then must find something to replace it. Therefore the man of Dao dwells on what is real and not what is superficial. Great goodness and kindness are sometimes not in keeping with the Dao. So remain at one and all will be well.

This seems a 'General' topic rather than Buddhist subforum. Can FmAm relate if this was mean for Buddhist discussion?

Until your a Shaman, as Flowing Hands is, you should start your own threads on such topics. Respect the OPs thread. Contribute meaningfully to the topic please.

Have you actually participated in the program and performed it? Or only read about it? I have studied under a Qigong master prior to going to JAJ program... and I was taught the "Divine Hookup"... and used it in clinicals... and since have studied again further with others. Do you know why a national program would provide a simple and safe and easily re-produced set? Do you know the liability which comes with such programs? Why is this useful as a national program teaching? And when does one actually decide whether for themselves this is useful or necessary? I will tell you my experience. As a national program, I get it. It is a safe method to teach everyone and anyone. Just follow it. No need to think. I like aspects of it and what it aims to do... but it is not necessary. The divine hookup is within you; not by rote steps. Rote steps are to help people get there... if your there, you smile at an instruction to: Left foot step; right foot step. There is a place for it and as part of an eclectic practice there is much to use... from this and from everyone you learn energy work from. Build your own system. Be your own person. Connect under your Way... That is just my experience.

That is exactly what he does... call upon his teachers Maybe the counter question to us all is: Have any of us?

P.S. I've waited a long time for a moment like this

That is an interesting way of putting it. Dao is the manifesting impulse/potential, which ties in some ways to "De" as the ultimate efficacious power/capacity/potential inherent aspect. After all, I think it correct to think that Dao and De cannot be separated. The confusion also seems to come from so many varying descriptions; Dao, One (sometimes Yi and sometimes Tai Yi), Tai Ji, HengXian, Wuji, Emptiness, Nothingness are at times considered synonymous. I think this is because from an academic point of view, we can only explore the limits of the mind and writings. To get beyond this, as you know, will require getting beyond mind. But the common themes across the texts cannot be ignored. Another common picture is that Dao as the melting/fire pot for all things; interesting ancient usage given alchemy is usually linked to external chemical transformations but clearly the ancients had an internal picture based on Dao. I could say more but this may all be detracting from the OP's thread. (If the OP wanted, this discussion aspect could be split)

I will say that at one time I used to think of it in terms of phase transformation; Nothingness simply transforms in energy/light/ to heat to vibration and thus begins the manifestation/arising. In my original formula, Dao was always there yet dormant in the 'nothingness' phase. I reasoned that Nothingness followed the Dao (as dormant, empty, etc). All the phases combined are simply One. This follows the idea that Dao is the blueprint in all phases by which all natures of all phases follow. In the last few years I have modified that position as I found that the TTC was really the only ancient text which tries to put Dao as central to the great awakening; Almost all the others put ONE as the central starting point; Dao was always later. But the blueprint idea remains. This next section finally won me over but many talk in this manner: The phrase “Hengxian” in Daoyuan 道原(“The origin of Dao”) in Huangdi sijing 黄帝四经 (The Four Canons of the Yellow Emperor): 恒先之初，迥同太虚。At the start of what is the ultimate beginning (Heng Xian), this distant aspect is the great void; 虚同为一，恒一而止。Vacuous together [with distant time] makes it One, it is the ultimate One and nothing else. 一者其号也。Its title is the One; 虚其舍也，its dwelling is the void; 无为其素也，Wu Wei is its original constitution; 和其用也。harmony is its operation. There is a Han Divination Book which breaks it down without reference to Dao... IMO, Dao would be so integral to ONE that it is hard to distinguish it as separate. Great Beginning (Primal Chaos is ONE) changes to Great Extreme (Tai Ji) changes to Great Change (Tai Jing) to Great Origin (Of life-manifestation) to Great Materialization. As a result: "The roaming deities move as spirits. As a result, they fly and walk, hidden in transformation. The lower life forms move, like fish, inbetween Heaven and Earth. "

This is actually how I have always seen it.. and probably why in the past my take was not easily understood. As Stosh said, it is confusing... but only because people follow DDJ25 too literally (Dao produced One) and ignore all other ancient texts which more clearly and in detail reveal that "The One gave substance to the Dao". I don't have a great picture for you but how I have seen it is like a coin, which is whole (One). On one side is nothingness and the other side is manifest. Instead of two sides, in the past I have talked like it is changing phases (think the 5 element transformations) but this seems to not work so well for some.

Please read carefully... mods had restricted him. Trunk as admin, leveled a warning to boot: this is independent and in addition to whatever the mod team decides to do. Since then, the mod team has decided on a 2 week suspension. Any more questions or concerns? ~~~ MOD ACTION ~~~ TOPIC LOCKED. Questions or concerns should be done via PM to a mod or admins. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

This is the mod announcement you may of missed: http://thetaobums.com/topic/34203-in-light-of-my-mod-squad-attack-and-argument-on-the-taoism-board/?p=533900

TER was put on restricted posting (essentially cannot post but can PM)... His suspension will be two weeks which means he will not be able to PM.

~~~ MOD ACTION ~~~ As of now, TheExaltedRonin is on restricted posting while mods review the issue. This restriction allows the mods to PM with TER should that be needed. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Right after the phase as a non-gender ghost

IMO, very, very few actually see it (or anything) but one can more easily acquire the / a feeling as you relate with your hands. At your age and condition, I would want a Qigong master to survey your energy and confirm it is currently moving as expected or how it is moving. I have done it with visualization and without. But the method of visualization is not attempting to 'see' it, just to lead it. After filling the LDT and compressing the energy to the size of a pearl, I then use that 'visual' to travel through the MCO. Eventually I will feel the Qi following (or at one with it). If someone does well with visualization then it may come easier but I might actually recommend doing up to an hour of Qigong with movement and then do laying down meditation at the end. I have found that there is nothing to lead/follow and you will actually feel it throughout your body moving everywhere.

He did the exactly same thing at another site and was banned... he doesn't realize that sometimes the messenger is shot for a reason .... maybe he also missed the movie "300" He thinks he is a ghost-buster but he palls in comparison

eggzachary ! I was trying to come up with a better 3d model... I was full of cold air but you put the hot air (and smell) into it

Ironically enough, I was recently thinking to ask you to explain the various more popular paradigms. As I understand the idea behind the red shift, I thought they were saying that it was shifting away from us in every direction. I am not sure what that implication means (as if we're the center of something). It seems to me that if you put dots on a balloon, they all start out close together and as it blows up, ALL dots move away from EVERY dot. Each dot thinks it is the center of dots moving away. But I'll let out the air and let you clear this up for me

Interestingly enough, it reminds me of Bunyan's Pilgrim's Progress....

Mine from years of wrestling on a mat... I used to love arm wrestling... struggle through the right-arm wrestling... make a guy sweat to death for several minutes... and he would emerge the victor and full of ego. Then I would announce that I am left handed and we needed to test how long he could hold out I taught soccer for 20 years... if you can't score goals with both feet, your half as good as you could be. Check both sides of the equation before people start flexing their muscles

I recall reading Sartre who replaced Descartes "I think, therefore I am", with : "I am a thinking thing... I am a substance whose nature is to think, and that my principal attribute is thinking". Replacing duality with another duality may improve the philosophical position for some but it nonetheless makes one less aware; they are clearly just hostage to the framework of the mind.

~~~ MOD MESSAGE: ~~~ Just to be clear: The warning was to Gatito for postings to SJ and Jeff. As this is your thread, we can lock it or let others continue as they want. It stays open until a direct request is made to close it. ~~~ P.S. Some posts are 'split and pit'