dawei

Another interesting issue I once read was the belief that LZ is actually from Wei, not Chu... And concerning the Guodian bamboo findings (Confucian and Daoist texts)... the research committee who first looked at these thought these might possibly be the "sayings" mentioned by ZZ... But I have not looked into either one.

I may use a word that MB doesn't like... but the only thing that matters is your find/walk your destiny. What we often think is natural is purely seeking, attempting, grasping, practicing, etc. One doesn't seek or practice naturalness... well, some try to. I often think of a point made by BaoPuZi: For Ge Hong, such techniques leading to ascension and long life are purely artificial, allowing humans to become something that they naturally, as earthly creatures, could never otherwise attain. Humans, Spirits, and Sages in Chinese Late Antiquity : Ge Hong's Master Who Embraces Simplicity (Baopuzi) http://scholar.harvard.edu/files/puett/files/puett_ge_hong_0.pdf

Once in a while I hear people say as such... Marblehead said it in another thread recently. I find it hard to accept that ZZ did not know of LZ. have you written on their relationship?

maybe some missed their punctuation class... I'm mortal was what they walked away with

Not sure I follow... Can we have 'no construct' yet have time? Or you mean my point is simply not constructive?

Dragons take on the color of their surrounds at times... carve a dragon in stone and it is stone-colored But the king wore the dragon rope with a color of yellow.... obviously: Yellow is the Imperial color ! The oldest representation of a dragon was clam shells with an opposing Tiger; Oldest archtype of Yin and Yang. The Chinese dragon is the god of water based on The Four Dragon Myth: At a time of severe drought, the four dragons (Long, Black, Pearl, Yellow) asked the Jade Emperor (the god who governed the mortal realm) to send rain down to earth. Eventually the dragons decided to swallow up the oceans to spray the water upon the lands. When the Jade Emperor discovered this, he set four mountains on top of the dragons to contain them forever. The four dragons transformed themselves into rivers which came to be known as: Long River (Yangtze), Black Dragon (Herilongjian), the Pearl River (Zhujiang), and Yellow River (Huanghe). This lends to the depiction of the Chinese Dragon as “guardians”. Chinese scholars have classified dragons in diverse systems. For instance, Emperor Huizong of Song canonized five colored dragons as "kings". The Azure Dragon [Qinglong 青龍] spirits, most compassionate kings. The Vermillion Dragon [Zhulong 朱龍] spirits, kings that bestow blessings on lakes. The Yellow Dragon [Huanglong 黃龍] spirits, kings that favorably hear all petitions. The White Dragon [Bailong 白龍] spirits, virtuous and pure kings. The Black Dragon [Xuanlong 玄龍] spirits, kings dwelling in the depths of the mystic waters. With the addition of the Yellow Dragon of the Center to Azure Dragon of the East, these Vermillion, White, and Black Dragons coordinate with the Four Symbols, including the Vermillion Bird of the South, White Tiger of the west, and Black Tortoise of the north. -- wiki

Maybe another thread... but how do you see ZZ knowledge of Laozi (from Chu)? It would seem he could not know of him. Interesting... I read up a lot on warring state period in the past... I want to go back and read up on this. thanks.

This is worthy of its own thread ! I would say it has come full circle as the shaman/spiritual seed was planted long ago... and even before that, why were they casting yarrow sticks for divine favor and answers? And before that, the gods of nature who governed earth, heaven, rain, etc. The emergence of Buddhism in a land void of religious affection is the heavy rains upon the religious drought yet already planted seeds...

You've hit upon relativity in Taoism... For ZZ, it simply comes and goes and thus neither is to be focused on as one can see them both by focusing on the whole. For LZ, it comes and goes; thus one may look at the coming or going and therein see they are part of the whole. Which side of the fence you find yourself is likely to be the path you take... one which requires more sitting to forget, or forgetting to sit.

Sorry... I missed this... I think it is a matter of perspective; one of time or not of time. Mountains are mountains and then not mountains, yet again mountains. Some speak of the before, during or after stage but this is but a 'time' construct itself. I can agree to time if you can agree to no time... and then let's reverse positions... I can disagree to no time if you can disagree to time

emails sent Wagner's works are very much worth their reading.... also see: http://www.amazon.com/The-Craft-Chinese-Commentator-Philosophy/dp/0791443965/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1393188165&sr=8-11&keywords=rudolf+wagner And I find his Wang Bi book better than say Richard John Lynn's similar attempt... http://www.amazon.com/The-Classic-Way-Virtue-Translations/dp/0231105819/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393188656&sr=8-1&keywords=richard+john+lynn Wagner mentions both in his book (sent). Yan Zun is maybe 50BC. The Concubine version is the one which Fu Yi claims to have used dating to around MWD-A. In the document I sent you, The Old Master, by Hongkyung Kim: "the Fu Yi edition is closer to Text B than to Text A, despite the claim that it was taken in 574 from the tomb of Xiang Yu’s concubine, whose time almost corresponds with the time of Text A" I commented on this in ch. 80 thread.

I went back to look at this particular phrase and I see why he said as such... Ren Qi is based on the MWD-B text...(literally, People's device / tool / utensil) but this has a very flexible meaning and the context must drive it. The idea of funeral vessels comes from Confucian usage of the same phrase in regards to funeral issues... but one then cannot overlook the older MWD-A phrase which is Ren Zhi Qi and is found in casting of yarrow sticks for divination... The Beida has the most interesting exchange (or typo?) where Qi is not device but rather breath! From Heshang Gong onward (to include Wang Bi and Fu Yi), they drop the Ren (people) and the meaning gets the more common many utensils. Chan mentions another alternative of the meaning of 'talents' but feels this is not correct by those who follow it. The only thing going for a funeral meaning is the next line mentions life and death but it is not necessary, IMO...

Communal harmony in issues of life and death. It is simplicity among the group.

Oh... other versions The very first commentary is actually Han Fei Zi... a legalist. (I have this) The Celestial masters wrote a commentary too, called the Xiang'er. Bokenhamp translates it in his Early Daoist Scriptures. There is a Concubine version which Wagner mentions. Also, the Yan Zun Version is used by Wagner in some of his books (I have two books by Wagner).

Hi Mark, Nice to see you posting here again. The TTC study chapters here had a version of Hendrick's at each first post, who is one of the few versions based on the MWD (which there is an A and . Hendricks also did a version on the fewer Guodian chapters. I have an e-version of the Guodian and could send it to you via email. I like to refer to it often as the character changes which occur later are much more frequent than most might think. The MWD has been translated or commented on by a few... I have a few references somewhere. I have the Beida in chinese but I don't think anyone has done a translation based on it. The Fuyi seems to bypass Wang Bi and go back to some earlier characters... but it is only interesting once one realizes that what we call the Wang Bi received has been edited itself! Prior to Wang Bi, Heshang Gong's commentary was the accepted thought... but Wang Bi wrote a commentary and yet his TTC shows in many places it does not agree with his commentary in many places. This is shown through the work of such as Wagner (http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Reading-Daodejing-Philosophy-Mandarin/dp/0791451828). I have this e-book too, if you want it. JMO... Wang Bi's is not actually so reliable in understanding the original... but as it is the 'received' the masses have it.

BKA(admin): I Change the name from Clement to Cloudhands... and found the PPF creation in the library. I have setup the PPF but it needs to be finalized...

Clement, I moved this to tech support to make sure the admins see this. dawei

Now we get to see the "KicksAss" part of her name

Pitted posts here: http://thetaobums.com/topic/33775-songtsan-following-desire/ Carry on Deci...

~~~~ MOD ACTION ~~~~ This language is not helping and we're not going to see 90 pages of it like the 'Debunking' thread. ANY FURTHER ACTION WILL BE DISCUSSED BY MODS ~~~~ THREAD CLOSED ~~~~

I tried to find the file I could not upload but the time escapes my memory... http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/lost-memories-9/ Lost Memories Lost memories I seek to find In dusty caverns of my mind - To travel those abraded trails Then lift those misty tattered veils As set through time, where thought prevails

Could you expand on this (either here or as a new topic)? I have heard of dependent origination but not much about nonorigination...

back surgery for what? I'll share my opinion, which is from experience and which the medical community may not agree... Sciatica pain seems to be very elusive as there seems to be an endless source of pain. there is a standing position of shifting weight form leg to leg, incredible slow. and then shifting one leg forward while the other leg shifts back. One has to touch their back to feel the movement effect to see there is movement. In fact, any general movement is better than no movement.

Have you ever subdued a crouching cat? There are few "only" examples in real life... but your example is very visual !

sorry to hear this... Is her weight higher than normal? The pressure on the body from even a small amount of extra weight varies from person to person. When a person gets older, this is not a realistic expectation to lose weight but one needs to sometimes realize this is the cause. If you find some useful remedy, please post back again.