dawei

@Zhe: Nice translation. I like it. The second line makes me think about the recent post by D.B. on perpetual potential; that potential is all there was in the beginning and all there is... it rings of the meaning here: Dao pours forth but never empties; never requires to be filled. And the other issue I often think about is the meaning that Dao is prior to anything we can think of, even deities.

This is one of those filed under "Don't practice this at home"... and the underlying meaning is as expected: Not everyone can or should attempt the All Systems are One approach. One has to have something deeply inherent and intuitively secure whereby they can connect dots easily and I don't mean they are good at crossword puzzles. Taomeow summed it up best for me and how I approach it. If I don't feel it deep down, I have no interest in it. And it doesn't matter where it comes from; system, practitioner, born healer, shaman, etc. One will also find they don't need to seek it out, it finds them too. It is interesting that the great historian Sima Qian said of Daoist, and defined the unfortunate term Dao Jia: That they exemplify the best of every school by assimilating any teaching. I think systems are useful and essential. They have the kind of structure necessary for the majority to continue the system's heritage. While there are some who can do many systems successfully, and some of them can create something unique as well, there is yet others who do it more seamlessly as they don't see any system in the end.

That is an interesting point about the 'awakening' aspect. I have long held the idea that there is not so much a 'reversal' to Dao but really just waking up the dormant aspect which always existed in us... That this aspect is DE is something I did not consider.

Correct... Fair question. To me, and it may be from lack of use of the area but I doubt it will convince me otherwise... The inability to see most recent posts in chronology as all boards display posts in a section. It is the one time a user needs to suspend how they use forum software anywhere in the world for this customized way. Now, would I suggest we get rid of it? No way. I think it has a useful purpose and it is a novel idea. I have just yet to feel any personal benefit in using it. I really only look at one PPF so far, so I can at least say I use it. I am big on organizational content and ease of use when it comes to forum software... so my opinions may be stronger than others.

I'll take that with a glass of Chianti...

Yes

Another question: Is it possible to erase another account? That might be much more interesting

And it for some reason it is pitted when split then it is never split again... I thought this was simple to understand but it is partly a mod decision where it should go.

It is only relatively public... it is a secured website with login access. TTB has decided the level of control by an OP. Just because the PPF lets the OP control the content does not change it as public or not. So the TTB has allowed members to pick BOTH. Did you really not understand this? As members can pick both, it would be good to flesh out exactly how they are used but they will never be completely the same exact thing. There will always be childish responses to ideas... I am not sure anyone would be surprised. The problem will only be when people stop posting to ignore it and you then post over and over and over, purposely to throw it current again... and then we'll see how that is dealt with.

When I was in the Air Force I was very good friends with a chaplain who told me this story... They would baptize the 'reborns' in the Missouri River... and on one particular cooler day they held the ceremony... after he dipped one guy into the water and then he emerged rather quick, he asked him: "Is the water a bit cold?" The guy replied, "No"... with many laughing in response at the shore... But one voice boomed over the laughter and said, "BETTER BAPTIZE HIM AGAIN, HE'S ALREADY LYING !!!"

Maybe you can do this as a new thread... The function of the Way is in return. I often think of this as more like restoring or waking up the dormant aspect which is always there. Because the phrase 'return' can have an idea of having been separated and now one is trying to get back to some place; but I think you cannot get back to a place you have never really left. This now makes me think of your point about 'potential'.

I am generally an advocate for this idea... because: 1. The PPF is a terrible excuse for controlled threads and very difficult to watch, search, etc. It is "Personal" and that is ok on a very limited basis but not a good idea as a general area of posting. 2. Threads should not get Pitted.... members should be And the Pit has become too PC an idea now... it is beyond debate club to being a fight club excuse. IMO, there is rarely a reason to Pit a thread but many reasons to Pit posts and members... 3. Not everything is a debate. While disagreement is a natural outcome to any thread, it changes colors very fast at times and that is the issue. Spamming, attacking, ganging up, etc. The same posters won't stop. It is the Usual Suspects. The OP should have the highest 'say' in THEIR thread.... if within reason, but there is a catch as to whether they can maintain it 4. Social Media has become a medication for the masses. TTB is no different. The amount of time people spend online is saving them from trips to the psych ward but TTB pays in different ways. People are allowed to go crazy here instead. 5. What's with the male cesspool? I recently pondered which members are the most important contributors to TTB, IMO, and the top 5 where female... So it begs the question or statement: Is the problem an alpha male issue? Dogs want to spray their scent; the mob likes to surround themselves with wiseguys; Apes beat their chest. I no longer need to go to the discovery channel to watch this, I now simply go to TTB for entertainment 6. The "my system is best" has gotten so old that it incredulously seems to continue to pick up steam... if the godfather talks the wiseguys need to come out in mass to clarify this is the only system? I have a dream... that the ego will let go of systems... 7. BS and brown-nosing... several take this to art form levels... continuing the mafia metaphors... someone comes back from a suspension and then says how bad it is to see someone else banned and how much they will be missed? Is that like Luca Brasi saying he would miss the guy he just wacked ? Does a shootout has no collateral damage? The male cesspool continues. Yes, TTB... there is a Santa Claus... and without Lao Zi there is no Tao... someone needs to publish the misinformation we see here and then distribute the proceeds to feed the hungry and poor... --- Ok, enough fun and games... what to do? More folders would not be the answer, IMO... maintaining more areas increases mod work and complicates it... if the idea is to put more responsible control of a thread in the OP, then the thread needs more controls... maybe like settings to say how "directed" this thread will be. But this often requires custom code and is a pain to admins on upgrades... So the idea may be that we ask and expect members to simply respect the OP and the thread and posts... The one reason this doesn't work has been said: The male cesspool syndrome... SO the choice narrows down to giving control to members or software...

I can't fly... Can you give me a guide on trial runs And the name of your health insurance

ah... potential is perpetual... ever-lasting... never completely used up?

Maybe plan B was to attempt to walk on the sea floor

It only takes a while to stop laughing at it. Hopefully you won't believe such silliness. Dao is finite to Laozi's thought? Dao was not only around prior to Laozi but was already mentioned in texts prior to Laozi. If you stick to one text alone, the world appears to only exist in that crystal ball. Laozi wrote with the benefit of tradition and that includes prior writers and thoughts.

Yes it does seem the secret is to let go of Dao [as a external concept] and find Dao [within]... this kind of matrix we find ourselves in, is in us. I would go as far as to say it is us on some level and then we can understand that aspect of manifestation. I think LZ knew that reading books would simply mislead people to focus on the finger instead of the moon.

Ah... so your Laozi's consigliere... I would expect no less

The focus is simply Wu and You as names of states, not of Dao. Leave Dao out of it and then Wu and You will make more sense, as states relative to each other; not Dao relative to itself with two names. Dao is not visible. Tao does not exist. It is not a thing. It exists only in our minds as an understanding of Wu and You.

I didn't say the brain sees it after it has manifested... to me it is instantaneously prior on some level. But I'm not getting my point across but I appreciate your explanation as it is good to hear how your system views it and helps. Thanks.

I hear you too... and I was also trying to get beyond the Mencius Qigong idea of 'mind leads chi'... I think that this is an over-used cliche in energy circles. What most don't reconcile is that Mencius also said the reverse: 'chi leads mind'.

Remembering a shield is to remember the image, shape, purpose, form, etc... that is still 'visualization' to me; there is a visual component otherwise the brain doesn't even know what the 'shield' is. Same issue... To think of her is to visualize her. I don't see the brain would see this as so different. IMO, how our energies actually connect and communicate is not as important as the fact that it does.

It sounds more like they don't combine the visualizing aspect correctly. If your trying to clear your legs and you break in and then down and out the feet, and you 'visualize' the turbid Qi going out the soles and 10 feet into the ground... the Qi should not end up in the head. But as any thought, notion, concept, intention is a mental EMF this may be why they get Qi going up to their head as they are not directing it correctly away from the mind. Put your mind at your palms and that is where you should sense your mind (Qi)... Tai Ji teaches that as well. How are you 'there? The notion or thought of a 'lower dan tian' already has an image and location, a purpose and an outcome... Feeling and awareness are at times impossible to separate from the image of the concept or notion. I think the word "visualization" is being used so far in a too restrictive manner. It is not one dimension of only 'seeing'; it is that aspect of the mind which contains the image part of the idea/thought/notion. Images are associated to ideas/thoughts/words. "Being in the lower dan tian" is equally a concept, idea, and an image to the brain. It does not separate them. I would say those that use visualization simply turn that dial more or less, and IMO it is always a part of any thought, idea, or notion and is not restricted to energy aspect any more than an idea is only on energy but sometimes on the body or location. So to me, this is just physical EMF as opposed to mental EMF... either one can assist such things. Knowing how to dial both means one knows more than one way to control the various aspects. Qi is always flowing... Some described it more like an illusion (ChiD) or like a sensation (Dwai). So many energy practices are really about developing the sensation (or awareness) as the Qi is always moving anyways. The image of this sensation is the visualization. I already made the case for how it is not possible for the brain to separate out various sides to this cube as they are an integral aspect. I think we are just accustomed to compartmentalizing in order to understand something. That may be possibly what some are doing... I can't answer to it as that is not my position. What you say makes sense from your point of view. I have mine.

I agree in principle about two aspects but your making them too dualistic for me... I see it more like a phase change of the same potential... and that is why I have tended more and more towards simultaneous arising. IMO, ZZ clearly believed in this as he said something like: "I arose with the ten thousand things".