dawei

This thread gets an A+ But like bell curve grading... the posting reveals some "A" and some "D"... and the rest are comfortably passing

Why don't people start their own thread with a question instead of harassing posts of opinions hidden behind accusations without any evidence to support them. It's really unbecoming to continue to read such posts and makes one wish the "dislike" button was back...

面色 - Facial coloration or complexion The ruist like the phrase: 面色或白或黑 - complexion sometimes white sometimes dark And from the histories: 面色乍白乍赤 - complexion suddenly white suddenly red Hopefully this clears up any lingering doubts as to complexion vs expression.

It is about complexion (color of face) not expression (shape of face). And Confucius would not ask strangers to live with family outsiders. The meaning is to mix, mingle and interact/come into contact/associate with people in natural settings; Not forcing people to live together to see their reaction. Hiding one's expression is easier than hiding one's complexion as it is revealed in one's interactions with others.

One thing to clarify is that the nine english lines above are translations by Watson, minus the red line 5. One should give a reference to translated work: http://terebess.hu/english/chuangtzu3.html#32 恋色 - sexual desire. I'm not going to push too strong for the idea that this as the best translation but it should be realized that there is a very naturalistic and healthy aspect to sexual desire... and the origin seems to come more from the purity of the queen (in classic poetry). It is more ancient softened with 思色. Once Confucians took to the moral high ground on anything which might be natural and compromised, then it seems the ruist like to use 恋色 to push their point of view. It may be a shame that Legge and Watson both took the sexual direction with the chapter. I think facial complexion (coloration) is valid given the historical use of the words.

ZZ was quoting Confucius who is the source of the comments... ZZ goes on to show he disagrees with it... Let's keep the quote in perspective of ZZ's writings.

That may be your feeling about what is going on here in the thread but it is not how I think some will see it. We can agree with your point of view about the seeming plagiarism but that is not controlled here; only what is posted here and how it is posted is what matters on some level; which seems to be a basic disguise of 17 years ago. I for one am glad your disguise for it still runs true to form. But is the tirade meant to create a following of disguise or an awareness or what? Maybe 17 years later it can provoke some disguise and that might be good. In any case, this was a good thread and the information should be available to us. Thanks.

Walking in metaphors and walking in heavy traffic are not the same... and yet the same. I think one know the difference when it is needed... and not needed. On TTB, it is all foreplay.

As it was a metaphor, your question is as: Nice Dao.... does it work? Does it keep the arising off you? No... we are all a part of it. We all join in together; As One. NO distinctions need to be made.

​I could of quoted every paragraph with a comment but this brings it all together for me. Sameness is not sameness and yet is sameness.

Dao, not being anything but rather nothing cannot enter anything else... As it is potential, it transforms anything. Thus it 'joins with' in the sense that an umbrella once opens can be said that the arm transforms [causes the arising of] the umbrella cover. It has joined with its arising.

Yes... you throw the entire board into a wild goose chase looking for the golden egg chapter

Yes... as what we find out is that ZZ has no affinity for the way of such inner virtue and the testing of man.

And surprise, surprise... who is quoted as saying this?

I just clicked on this thread and it seems you have restored the balance of TTB universe

I don't know if I recommend attempting this at home... but since you asked: http://www.highexistence.com/the-wim-hof-method-revealed-how-to-consciously-control-your-immune-system/

色 as 'color' used in the idom conveys the ancient meaning of the pleasure/desire (colors which arise in the body) of sexual contact or even non-contact from simple desire. It is also used of the homosexual relations and thus not really gender specific as to the partner. This has nothing to do with religious adaptation. (Be care who you ask about chinese meaning and history... you get anything from some). The phrase 恋色 (sexual desire) is also in A Dream of Red Mansions. If we want a serious consideration of its origin, then we need to go back to the Mawangdui manuscripts, and Confucian discussion on the poetry It is laid out rather black and white in what we know as the Classic of Poetry. (Hopefully this will dispel any misinformation about religious adaption). It was a common device to use people's desires and emotions as lessons. One can even find the pleasure of music compared to sexual desires. The common themes were about proprietary vs promiscuity; Do these stop where they should stop or are they in uncontrolled excess. These stories vary from people who are attracted from a distance and it is but a mere dream to those whose longing is never satisfied (even to mean physically never together--forlorn lovers who cannot meet).

Destiny is from outside; Direction is from inside. I sense the two are confused.

The reason this cannot be the cause is retrospective effect: God does not demand anything as it would all be failure anyways. Sin leads to guilt leads to shame leads to separation leads to division leads to "I". One might like the argument along this lines but it would imply that God put in place a path of understanding separation and "self" and that would also be a retrospective effect. If we were to entertain an idea of God, it cannot result in the idea of sin... why not? it is the duality and opposite? It is the mind alone which wants such duality. What is Sin? IMO, It depends on the perspective of the source.

Dogen's Mountain and River Sutra has confirmed what I long thought, and as you said here and is but a cross-stitch pattern of your posts; The dissolution of self is a delusion of distinctions. Each of the 10,000 functions naturally in its phenomena by adapting... But I need to understand this more...

I don't disagree with this idea... but it's not always realistic... most members don't look at the PPS and there is no easy way to see what exactly is new there. That's the appeal of the general areas... And for a retreat information, the general area makes 'sense'... But I've said it before.. if people are getting pushed more and more to just stick it in their PPS then there are bigger problems to solve, IMO.

If your going to be sleep deprived in a daoist retreat, then the problems are not just the retreat... The retreat is not for the weak hearted... I think one has their answer already about whether it is for them or not... but maybe TTB should be where people worry about whether they are sleep depriving themselves by hanging out here day and night. Last time I looked, TTB was not the fight club but it seems more and more people seem to view it that way... Different strokes I guess.

not sure I follow as the retreat thread in question here was started in Dec. 2013.

I think one issue which needs to be remembered is that a person's comments may *appear* to not criticize or harass but once a bandwagon of opposition has started then if people don't have the common sense to stay out of the fray they are going to get caught up in potential action. The purpose of the thread in question was about a retreat. If people have no plans or interest in the retreat, then there is almost no reason to post in the thread. Even if they disagree with the schedule, it IS disrespectful to make claims over how useless or uninteresting it appears. So I saw a few issues in the mod's favor here for stepping in: 1. Posts were irrelevant and meant to derail, put down and otherwise 'disagree' on a post which is not even intended for them. 2. Common sense is hard to come by sometimes and it was clear it was left at the door many a morning. If people want to debate, there are plenty of threads; or start your own debate but don't claim your 'disagreement' within a retreat thread with information for the potential attendees is harmless. 3. Disagreeing with a mod in a thread is derailing it further. It is off-topic and to continue it is simply irresponsible. IMO, once a mod starts telling a member to settle down, the member should use common sense to PM the mod if they really want some answers or in a separate thread like this. I personally am not sure the mods stepped too hard but maybe too late. It was very clear from almost the beginning that there was opposition to the OP and it has followed him around the board. The 'intent' of counter-posts in a thread like this one in question was simply uncalled for. If your not going to the retreat and you have no questions then there was no need to post. JMO...

It would seem your concept of happy is a pre-condition of something else... that makes happiness a kind of dependent origination but it seems it misses the point when seeking and desiring an outcome (happiness) is inserted into it all. This is an external, mind condition more than an internal, spirit. JMO.