dawei

As a history test... who is that earliest child in recorded chinese history? Don't you hate to be the one to speak out.... to yet be asked the follow up 'punch' question?

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32561-the-teaching-of-quanzhen/?p=498255

Here is a guy I can talk with

here is from JAJ's book: Modern research in Chinese medicine equates the function of the adrenal glands to the function of Kidney Yang. . . . During the development of the embryo, the Thrusting Vessels are responsible for the development of the adrenal glands and the cortex.

I have to admit that this idea of 'vulnerable' does not register... I have looked up the definition a few times to make sure I get the meaning here but not sure I get it. In my own world... why would I care about this. This seems to make an intentional distinction between subject and object, or other. I am vulnerable to who or what? The inconceivable?

I have long studied the ancient periods leading up to and whistling past LZ and ZZ. One thing I have learned over the years is that anyone who tries to take LZ and ZZ as the starting point of Daoism just doesn't get it and isn't worth talking to about it This site gives this somewhat simple breakdown: Proto-Daoism - Antiquity to 2nd Century Classical Daoism - Era of Celestial Masters through Tang Dynasty 900 AD Modern Daoism - Song Dynasty through 20th Century. Contemporary Daoism - The "near-total collapse" If one can accept the following then they are on the right road... Daoism was not created on one specific date by a specific person. It was rather a result of preexisting Chinese philosophies and folk religions (such as shamanism) combining together. Nevertheless, the Daoism today is considered by many to have been created by Laozi, the author ofTao Te Ching, who established a focus of study for the future generations of Daoists. Many aspects of Daoism, however, can be traced back way further before Laozi wrote his teachings. The spiritual, not philosophical, part of Daoism such as the spirits and Feng Shui, a Chinese system of geomancy, were present before the creation of Tao Te Ching. http://doyoubelieveindao.weebly.com/origins-and-events.html The spiritual was prior to the philosophical... some might call it mystical but this is western interpretation by researchers and scholars not practitioners. And what was prior to the spiritual?

I have sleeping problems off and on. Now I am doing well. I have used melatonin which appears to help. I would definitely agree no qigong in the evening particularly if it intentionally moving energy. But I have done some deep breathing and/or filling with no other intention and the energy arises on its own and is sometimes helpful. Also, I have used Halosync sounds. You can listen to a sample here but it is one of many in the set but maybe you can figure a way to download it http://mp3skull.com/mp3/holosync_the_dive.html

I'll give some context to my comments... When in my christian heyday, I used to like to listen to Frankie Schaeffer who once chided the inside about how they like to take a picture of nature and then felt compelled to put words under it: Like show a vast mountain and then write "God takes you to new heights"... And, if memory strikes me, he effectively said: Why impose a thought on another person... let them see the mountain and let it just be a mountain sometimes. There is not a need to spiritualize the mundate all the time. If one can't see the mundane then how can truly see the spiritual. Anyways, not saying your really doing that but just sharing some contexts. Sorry to side track... that is just my take.

I am not sure I separate them as much as we think they are separated... it's just semantics when it comes out in words; but systemic when inside. The problem is... I knew what you were looking for from the start... so I was prejudiced by it already... so I just let any thought arise... that's what arose... I saw the mundane. That was my feeling/thought. Maybe this is not want you want someone to share, so I can bow out.

One thing is for sure: Korean ginseng can 'sing'. I've have very potent stuff from there. I was recently eyeballing a Korean Ginseng tea but just didn't want to get disappointed in it.

My first thought was that he is going out to find an interior decorator. My second thought was: Is this the movie 'descent' ? My third thought was: He is going to catch a nasty cold walking through all that water.

In chinese, Baijiu (白酒; báijiǔ) , while one might translate it as 'white wine' is it far from the western idea of white wine. Once you realize it can be upwards of 70% or more alcohol, you won't call it 'wine' anymore yourself While there is the chance of references to rice wines downwards of 30% alcohol, I am very much inclined to lean towards the high level alcohol as that is the traditional drink. Spend any time in china and you'll likely not ever be served or see 'wine' as you think call it. And after a few glasses, your understand why they are often drunk... Or just watch Jackie Chan's (both movies) on Drunken Master...

This is a very good point and reminder... excess drinking of green tea turns the benefits around at some point. I will often be on a few months and then be off several months. For me, its like a cyclic detox use... Speaking of detox: I also eat a fair amount of cilantro when drinking the tea to help purge any metals.

Ditto ! That is why I put [Post-Heaven] Jing in brackets as most people talk about Jing really only mean this part... but TM has connected it at a much deeper level into the Pre-Heaven aspect as well. It was a bit of an ah-ha moment about the comments of the 'memory'... As Jing is related to the Kidney's and I had learned that memory as well... but never connected the Jing<>Memory dots. I looked back at some notes and then found that I had memory broken down as follows: Kidneys = short-term Heart = long-term Spleen = rote It may be that TM has a different scheme for these. I'll attached a graphic of embryology growth phase... not sure if this agrees with her scheme but it is a useful and small chart. Source: JAJ Medical Qigong book. Embryology.bmp

The difference has to do with whether your doing Natural Abdominal Breathing (NAB) or Reverse Abdominal Breathing (NAB). I tend to think of the perineum and anus as moving in unison exactly the same as the stomach; All Expand; All Contract. Easy, yes? Now, based on what your saying, you are using NAB because you said you contract when inhaling: "Only during the inhalation phase?" But let me ask: If you are inhaling and contracting your contract perineum and anus, what are you doing with your stomach (contract or expand) and what is the direction of the energy during inhalation (perineum up spine to crown or crown down front to perineum)?

Not really and I drink rather strong green tea. I judge its strength by how many cups I can drink of the same tea leaves without replacing them. Usually a thumb nail size will easily last 8-10 cups. I alternate spicing it up with cut up ginger or a ginseng root. The root will last about 3 days. And I try to drink it down to diluted state so that I finish the day with some flushing by mostly water.

I think the link between [Post-Heaven] Jing and Stomach/Spleen is simply because that is the starting point for food ingestion. These organs extract the 'essence' in food/liquid and distribute it around the body... but the other organs play a role in the eventual extraction/production of Qi and blood... but it all starts somewhere... with the first bite. This is not quite yet an answer to, "What is Jing" but maybe more a glimpse as to the start of the extracting/processing/transforming of [Post-Heaven] Jing. Once the process is completed through the organs and all the vital substances are realized, then we may have a better idea of what is Jing. Adding a link which may be useful: Spleen: http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/zangfu/spleen.cfm Stomach: http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/zangfu/stomach.cfm

That seems to be a mental conflict, thus not Wu Wei in the end

I forgot to mention the dog pee-pee dish... the story behind it is the most interesting. The local friend I was with had never had it so we couldn't resist an order. It came out looking in its full morning glory but sliced up... He ate the tip and then afterwards looked at me and asked: "In english, would you say that I just gave the dog a BJ?" I said... "I think even 'deep throat' doesn't quite completely capture what you just did..." Then I had to explain 'deep throat'... Many beers and hard alcohol make such nights more fun than otherwise might be possible.

I am fond of dog... so usually eat it when in china. Often in china, 'fresh' is much closer to meaning than in the US... if you can pick your animal while it is alive, I call that fresh. Several varieties of slugs including some from the sea. I like this large turtle from one city. Something like a circada. Organs from many animals. Fish eyes and brain. Spicy Duck brain is to die for. Pig intestine, tongue, ear is really good. Donkey meat and genitalia (both sexes, when mixed is called Phoenix and Dragon) is quite good. Pregnant frogs (eating the stomach was interesting). Many things on a 'stick'. Birds so small they look like baby frogs. Small frogs... other insects on a stick.

I am not sure I agree with this... if the Source is non-dual there is no desire or perceiving by the source. It just is Unity, not what we become, trapped in dualistic thinking. The only way I can reconcile it is to think in terms of pre-heaven (Unity) and post-heaven (Dualism)... but seems I'm just treating it dualistically in the end. Maybe Hoisted by my own Petard... Thoughts anyone?

To a member, if a the post is blank, there would appear nothing to report on that post. But what I think your saying is that at the time a post has something and is reported, that gets sent as at that moment there is something in the post. That is expected as it grabs the post at that moment in time (which exists at that moment). But another issue would be that when someone quotes another, their quoted post has a "return" link to get to that post again... If that post is later 'edited for consolidation', there is nothing to go back to. There is really no end to the problems it causes to an otherwise default behavior of a forum for posts and replies.

But a link to a post and and post number is mute if one is moving the cheese around at will...

This is a good question and the surface answer is Yes... but we need to get to the depth of meaning to understand why. It is not about Body is Form or Form is essence... the Alchemy process is one of consolidating, integrating, restoring the Unity. If we just talk about the parts, we loose the end game idea. Consider the following aspect of unity and end game of Xing-Ming: "Without form, spirit will vanish; without spirit, form is lifeless". Not the parts as 'Spirit and Form'... that is in parts and reveals a lose of meaning. Spirit-Form is the unity. It is the goal of Alchemy, the arising of the Yang Spirit. Xing and Ming are united as one. Where does it start? With restoring original essence (yuan jing). This eventually leads to the Spirit-Form. Consider this from the Zhong He Ji text: Xing is the perfect Spirit (shen) prior to Heaven: it is the One Numen. Ming is the perfect Essence (jing) prior to Heaven: it is the One Breath. Essence and Spirit are the roots of Xing and Ming. . . . Tr. Pregadio When the roots [essence and Spirit] combine in unity, they establish the Spirit-Form; the Yang Spirit. Xing-Mang unite. When a person looks at a newborn baby for the first time, one thought which is hard to completely understand and swirls in the head is; How did this essence (jing/sperm) give rise to such a form? Now for a spoiler: Pregadio wrote: “the notion of generating an inner embryo is not a neidan innovation,” ... “The image of the embryo changes according to the understanding of neidan itself.” The Xing-Ming goal of the Spirit-form, or Yang Spirit, has it roots in the much earlier inner alchemy of the inner embryo, or inner spirits which are to be formed and nourished... and this has it's ultimate root in Laozi...

This isn't quite complete enough an understanding. Your first translation was much closer to showing it. Simple language is used for simple explanation but will lack in complete meaning; Mind and body is more like a Qigong understanding whereby Longevity is through prevention. It is post-heaven in focus. Alchemy is Longevity through restoration. It is pre-heaven in focus. The meaning goes deeper and not just a dictionary can explain it. You had said: > Xing is the mind, thoughts, one's nature, personality, and spirit. Ming is the body, life, energy, destiny, and substance. This is more complete. > The dual cultivation of Xing and Ming which means the cultivation for "the spirit and the form". You left out the word 'simultaneous' and missed the unity of the meaning. Simultaneous cultivation of the Spirit-Form. This is the end goal, a singular Yang Spirit (Shen), not two things. > The spirit is the mind and form is the body. This is not what the chinese said. The original talks of the unity of the person, not parts. One cannot just look at the beginning process to explain the full meaning; one needs to understand the process and end goal. Only then will one understand the beginning process better; and that is it not just mind and body. Mind and body are temporal... Qigong works on temporal aspects; Alchemy on the eternal aspects. It is for this reason many cannot explain Alchemy as they only understand Qigong and see the meanings are similar in word use. I'll explain more in answer to Dragon X question on Form vs Essence... that is one key to understanding.