dawei

Here is an ancient star map: I never thought to overlay it with the Fuxi/Nuwa constellation photo... not that dissimilar. To expand on your comments: Fuxi is holding a carpenter’s square (矩,Ju-symbol of earth) and Nuwa is holding a compass (規, Gui-symbol of heaven). The words together as Gui Ju mean a rule, custom, keeping order or well-behaved. Thus, these words also hold the meaning as measuring some distinction (ie: between right and wrong). This is seen as one of the oldest archtypes of comparing heaven (round) and earth (square), and as a representative dualism of Yin and Yang (Fuxi as yang oversees Earth as yin; Nuwa as yin oversees heaven as yang).

I think the point would be better made with historical reference and examples instead of purely an opinion. #2 was in fairly common use in confucian and daoist texts. #1 was arrived at as the three character title over time and one can trace the evolution of the same till DDJ was ultimately followed. As MB points out: I would say it is historically inaccurate to have Dao before De, but the victors re-write history...

Dorian Black, on 01 Nov 2013 - 14:31, said: MCO is a part of Step 2... The basic step 1 is to have sufficient Qi in the LDT before attempting circulating practices.

That may be because we do not sustain the cause longer. I found where I can reproduce an involuntary movement and I've been seeing if I can really sink into that moment when it comes to see if it is leaving me because I am too conscious of it (or paying too much attention to it).

That was funny I meant no external movements of hands or body... Twitches are always welcomed

and what about versus laying down? (ie: no movements are expected anyways).

please... more childishness... comparing whose is bigger? Your really not like this.. or so I thought.

Ok... maybe I am simple not clear enough... I'll dumb it down...and give a multiple choose question. You can say which one applies or which one closest applies. Because I am interested in how you use the link; WHy? 1. I want to truly understand your angle of use of the link 2. You use DDJ1 as a litmus test for translations and do you care or not when seeing the english word used in translations in other chapters. 3. You favor certain translators (this was the original point) Your use of the link is most exemplified by: 1. I read every single translation (112) every time. I read all 112 options and choose the english word I think applies 2. I read randomly every time. Every time I use the link, I read 5-10 (or whatever) and then choose the english word of choice. In other words, I NEVER go back to a translator I like or prefer... it is always random reading. 3. I occasionally go back to translators which I have previously read and agree with their words. And read others. 4. I most often go back to translators which I have previously read and agree with their words. I tend to keep to this group but will randomly read others. I originally was asking if there are translators you prefer... or not... maybe you only care the english word and do not care about the translation or translator at all... thanks.

There is no assumption in it but a question as to the sources. You avoided the detail of my point by only saying 'english'. That's not really an answer to my original point... but that was all you were willing to say. Such answers are incomplete. That's ok. I'm getting used to it.

fair enough What english sources do you feel are acceptable to look at? (I hate to ask if they are western or eastern authors but that would be ultimately very telling as to whether we're back to a chinese source or not).

yes... Wu Wei is more about an energy source than trying (a form of doing) to lose attachment(s). But most keep it philosophical and explain all the things you should "do" to get there... Wu Wei is about the Dan Tian being in control

In other words: CHINESE sources... Your stepping on your own toes here.

I have posted somewhere else, quite a bit ago, of doing that while flying... I saw the person next to me reading a book on energy and decided to start a conversation with her... found out that she was really interested in this thing called "Qi" and was just reading around. I asked her if she wanted to experience something right there and then... she agreed... and I showed her how to feel her own energy and then to feel my energy (projected) I was once asked to come teach the first class of Taiji at an acupuncture school... and I asked them what they thought of the Qigong class they just completed... they said it was disappointing as they learned lots of movements but did not have any 'feeling'. As this was an indoor-outdoor class (outdoor to learn movements), I said we would go find a very large tree when outside and I would show them how to feel it's energy... and then we partnered up for more energy sensing. I think there is a lot to be learned by using partners.. and there is a time to go hug a tree

This has been a very interesting topic. I generally agree with MPG's point about Yin and how this gets confusing with Chang's talking of Yin. I think what some say is experiencing Yin is to experience Yin-ness; the relativity of the energy spectrum of Yin<--->Yang. Even a slight movement on the Yang side, towards Yin, is a feeling of Yin-ness. I can think of many partner's work, in class and clinicals, where we send Yin(ness) vs Yang(ness)... The difference is discernable, but it is a relative sense too; meaning, you can discern it better when you try to compare it with another energy mix. Through experience and experimentation, you find that different people feel it differently and some even see it differently (colors change to them). I won't get into whether they are truly seeing colors or think they are seeing colors... there is a change effected and discerned. This brings me to the point that people clearly experience energy differently... I have been exposed to three different 'masters' and all three claim mostly from their way or lineage but they offer very different opinions at times. It reminds me of the argument about why do true masters not agree on the simple stuff: Like the color of the chakras, etc... I think it is mostly due to their own physical/energetic/chemical composition which are interacting with this non-tangible realm of energy and spirit. I can only say that while I don't discount what others claim, I do not always believe it as gospel... but I accept that they believe it. And I accept that is it possible that their experience is wholly theirs and may not be mine (nor never mine to experience). I am following my path and my journey brings me to places where they have not journeyed either...

This would be an interesting topic. I also do certain circulations based on the meridians. I developed one to 'clear my legs' using the loop of Yin-upward to belt loop around back and then Yang-downward (back to same leg)... Once you get this with one leg, just split the vision and do both at the same time... this was much shorter than taking it through all the meridians up and down... and we're a very 'time' conscious age

I missed the fun part of the mega-posters... so now I am like one on an island thinking up stuff about mega-posters and what that means... I can either stop those thoughts and engage them for a chat and end up talking all night with my thoughts... chat, chat, chat (ie: post, post, post)... or I can simply let the 'mega-poster' thought walk on its way around the island alone... "Observe the mind without following mind. After a long time, you will observe the Celestial." Nicely said... You give a new meaning to 'mind control'. We often apply that as one person(s) doing that to another... and we never see how we apply it to ourselves !

What we sense (and at least believe), is that there is something instead of nothing Again, the already mentioned Yang's Embryonic Breathing book is good for some science background; and his The Root of Chinese Qigong is much better if one doesn't want the embryonic aspect of the book, and it is much more well rounded. I'll share some from JJ's Medical Qigong book: "The Lower Dantian is considered a center of consciousness. The consciousness of the Lower Dantian is more kinesthetic or physical given its Yin nature and close proximity to the Earth... it is considered the house of physical (kinethetic) communication, awareness, and feelings. The level of awareness referred to as "the intuition of the physical body" or kinethetic communication, is stimulated by the subconscious. The subconscious picks up many signals from the environment that are not processed by the logical mind. These signals can motivate spontaneous body movements and responses and are sometimes referred to as a gut feelings. [Quick Digression]: Those of us who have commented in various threads on Wu Wei and that it is not just thinking you are doing Wu Wei or that you can remove attachments; it is more like being lead by energy impulses as described above. [\Quick Digression] ... collect energy in the Lower Dantian, an increased awareness and sensitivity naturally occurs.... to maximize kinetic communication. These are subtle senses that allow Qigong doctors to feel, smell, or hear energetic phenomena as they are released from the diseased tissue of patients. The Lower Dantian sends and receives impulses, records experiences and responds to emotions. Its nerve cells are bathed in and influenced by the same neurotransmitters as the brain. The Lower Dantian's "brain" known as the enteric (intestinal) nervous system, mirrors the body's central nervous system and is a network of 100 million neurons (more than the spinal cord contains... blah blah blah. [Quick Digression]: So why don't all practitioners achieve this sensitivity level of a doctor? They are spending their lifetimes 'breathing' into the dan tian... There is a difference between accumulating breath and Qi into the LDT... I like to say: Less breath and more Qi. That does not mean we breath less; it means the ratio of Qi-to-breath can be increased. The awareness and sensitivity increases sometimes need more focused and trained practice; sitting there and breathing may not create this result. [\Quick Digression] Finally.. a picture of this none-thing: JJ Book further names these as: 1. The Palace of Jade (Jade Stem or Jade Cave) 2. The official Health Monitor (Kidneys) 3. The minister of the Orchard Terrace 4. The Chamber of Moving Pearls 5. The Minister of House Cleaning (Large Intestines) 6. The Palace of Mystical Spirits (Small Intestines) 7. The Chamber of Mysterious Elixir 8. The Spririt of the Jade Court (Bladder) 9. The Spririt of the Yellow Court (Spleen) And you thought I didn't want to talk 'location' In my world: IT is an 'energetic-thing' with a physical location, and acts on and by the physical wiring, energetic stimulus, and spiritual source.

Maybe SP8 if going after depleted essence/semen emission issues... but go to 10 chinese doctors and 9 will tell you your kidney's are depleted... I was at first inclined to think it was SP9... About the first indentation below knee on iside. Drains dampness, including those involving the GB... which has been mentioned in the head. Makes sense with liver point. Locations of SP9 http://www.elediac.com/publ/7-1-0-452 SP9 with the paired point around the other side of the knee (ST36) are common even for self-massage... hint hint...

Maybe it's just the hunter-gather in us (generalizing of course)... it's the call to 'hunt' in men...

How about this? Zhuangzi, Ch. 11 -- Tr. Burton What is this thing called the Way? There is the Way of Heaven, and the way of man. To rest in inaction, and command respect - this is the Way of Heaven. To engage in action and become entangled in it - this is the way of man. The ruler {HOST} is the Way of Heaven; his subjects {GUEST} are the way of man. The Way of Heaven and the way of man are far apart. This is something to consider carefully!

I know there are others... I may have one or two. realize they all really do the same thing... they start with the MWD but where they agree with changes (to the Guodian or later text) they sometimes feel compelled to deviate and explain why. If I find something I'll PM you as I would need an email to send you anything I find...

This is the third title ! Talk about an original title not conveying what has unfolded LOL But it is very pictorial indeed.

I think we basically agree. To be fair to H.E. (or any member), the initial title may not always be able to convey exactly what will unfold in the thread. That kind of thread is bound to evolve and help the OP develop the first idea they have into something more substantial (or maybe not). I was willing to participate in his journey.

I agree with many of the points Stosh is making as some of these ideas are difficult ones to simply consider as just a 'thought for the day'. This special sub-forum area is to discuss in depth topics related to taoist texts. I don't quite understand how you can want to repeat your ideas from the TTC section but he cannot repeat his? If you don't want discussion then I would say this is the wrong forum. The contributed articles section or personal practice area would be more ideal to keep it to just "here is my thoughts" and not engage in a lot of discussion.

I know that H.E. made a certain position about De... and you got confused, and you had some question about following his point. But, from what I see, your making the same point he did. I don't really see where you differ from what he was saying, except he used that argument to THEN say De came before Dao; De being deep and divine, as you say here. I agree with what your saying above. I know that some, including myself at times, does not like the use of "divine" but your usage here is clear that you are not referring to human virtue. So I think this phrase is good. I recently ran across a translation from Taiwan translation into English and they choose to use "Divine Law" for Dao.