dawei
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Everything posted by dawei
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(H.E. can let me know if he would rather this get moved to another, new thread). Response started as a new thread as Cosmology in ancient chinese text http://thetaobums.com/topic/32324-cosmology-in-ancient-chinese-text/
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meaning inseparable. You don't have one without always the other there... but I may re-consider this if I push back to a wu-state; I think Dao is doing it's jig in the WU-state, which is 'nothing'... but not sure that De is necessary... it may be dormant but not needed until 'existence' emerges.
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I understand that this is your interpretation... but that was not the OP's position and argument. As I mentioned, on Page 2 the OP made his argument .... from Ch. 51. ιεΎ· does not exist in the book... and is a much later imaginative naming for the book... so that would be confusing term to introduce in this thread as it is not what the OP is saying.
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Technically.... Xuan De is inferred in the title. Xuan can mean mystery, profound, Original, Primordial. So in context of 'which came first', this is asking about Origin of, or Original De. H.E. made an explicit argument for it on Page 2 as Xuan De... but it has been inferred all along. I think this is what is meant by Grokking on some level...
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TTB Website Does has a True Taoist Environment....?!
dawei replied to ChiDragon's topic in Daoist Discussion
I was not seeking a feeling nor desiring or expecting anything from the site. I didn't join to fulfill some void or need. Websites are more a retreat from the world than seeking a home. If your seeking it to be your home then there is something missing in your life. He was not the first to notice... only the first willing to take your bait. I would bet money that many knew the game that would unfold... and we are seeing it now. You don't really like to discuss topics as much as tell people what you want them to know and think. Silence does not mean nobody noticed; it can mean they notice and shake their head. And your proving my point... You want to change the forum, people's thinking, etc. Your proving it again... 90% or more of your communication backfires. SO your theory of understanding Wu Wei does not align with the majority of what you actually do. You can give a new pat examples of 'accepting' an suspension but you learn nothing from it and will repeat the same behavior over and over... This is the ultimate test of acceptance; Can you accept 'change' when it reveals itself as what is needed. Your going to find many lessons from a website like this but unless you can accept that, your not really understanding how to be Wu Wei as to not accept change is adverse at times. You chided H.E. thread about Dao and De and suggested it should not even be a thread... and said THere is no De without Dao... How is this different? There is no TTB without Members... so to claim you are criticizing one and not the other shows a lack of real insight and a double standard to how you hold other people's threads. Is the website a True Taoist Environment? This is more an oxymoron... And I think makes the same mistake in understanding as H.E. was asking and Cat responded to... Practicing Taoism is also an oxymoron... that is at odds with itself. Seeking to understand Tao or Taoist principles is also off-track. -
funny you should say that... I was caught last night explaining why there is no 'ice' in ice cream... Just have a lick !
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This reminds me of why, in my 'Zen days' I kept a book on Dogen... There is a seeing of consolidation. I think Yunmen talked of a mountain as a barrier, yet a pass... it depended on one's actualization? This seems the essence of 'seeing'... is it mountains (physically or not) or mountains walking (actually or not).... it is about what we are seeing (or not); and that is not eyes but all our associations via actualizations. If I'm off track, bring me back to the mountain to find the pass... but I think I may of passed it once...
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Zhuangzi said: Close the ears; close the mind; Listen with Qi... then you can know something more. But I don't think that Plato had this in mind... or maybe this was his mind...
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I think if you are doing RAB, locking has a stronger effect than NAB locking on exhale. In the former case, the pressure balance is much, much stronger. There is an impetus to it. On NAB, the lock on exhale is more conservation and path. Your movement feedback is key.... your really in tune with your movement of breathing, Qi, circulation, body, etc. Sensing the body (and I mean energetic side too, in this) is an important pass. In fact, that is all I mean... experimenting is good... at times dangerous but you must sense the movement feedback as a tell-tale sign of what you do (or don't do). In the absence of a teacher/master, we are often simply wanting to get to some higher understanding and way. You will figure this out with some more experimenting and practice. I know this as the belt vessel... you made me look up girdling merdian... I cannot speak from any experience towards a positive feedback loop you mention... but I am going to spit-ball here. I focus on my belt vessel for one primary reason: I have a bone displaced in my lower back (due to sports in past) and the only solution (ie: fix) is nuts and bolts in my body... I refuse that solution as long as I can walk ! LOL A secondary reason comes from my learning Tai Chi. My taiwan master emphasized this so much as the source of all movements. So the LDT may be a 'lower brain' but that area may also be the source of all of our movement. It makes sense in many ways, which there is not time here to say. So, I think you are right to look at the girdling/belt as to its contribution of energy direction and pressure in rotating the LDT. I would like to hear more of your experience in regards to this.
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I think there are a few reasons to do the lock; foremost to reduce any Qi leakage. Also, when one locks on exhale/compression, that is the equivalent pressure of the RAB (but here it happens on exhale). So you want to have that pressure differential (high vs low). I know some will lock on both inhale and exhale and claim it is useful. I don't do that for two reasons: One is the stress it puts on the Perineum. It should be treated (IMO) as an extension of the stomach area which moves. Second, getting it to move in sync with the stomach and breathing will generate a warm feeling (or Qi sensation) there and it is the critical junction point where the conception and government vessels meet. I would encourage you to try it just to see any effect. I will warn this: Thinking your moving that very area (Hui Yin) does not mean it is actually moving. You'll want to get a hand down at the spot and see if it is truly expanding and collapsing or not. Yes and I think this is what the source of your below observations I would guess that this is a good indication that the main vessels are full and flowing and thus overflowing into meridians and vessels.
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I think you don't understand the english.. He means: Location is but one part of the whole... and the only one you keep talking about... He means there is a whole lot more to it but you can't get beyond location. Time to move beyond location...
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No... another is saying it... but you have the correct idea and so trying to further your point...
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We may be now going in circles just re-stating our positions again and again ... so here I go A house is meaningless without an inhabitant... in fact, there needs to be an inhabitant first, otherwise a house is meaningless. Dao is about the arising order; DE the creative force... you cannot say one is first here; only that their attributes/abilities/capacities arise together... A body arises as skin, bones, emotions, mental state, etc... In real life terms, it doesn't make sense to try and order them sequentially; they arise (form) simultaneously. I do think DE is the creative force... and 'power' has been used by some translators to also convey that. But the power needs some reason to exist and perform; and it needs a "Way" which it goes about its unfolding. Dao must exist before things else things cannot arise (which is the operation of 'Way', via the capacity of 'De'). Now, I can see where you might say: For Dao to come about (trying to avoid the word exist or arise), there must be some motive force to get it to be Dao. I think the problem with this is Dao is formless and not possessing capacity per se; it is a description of how DE goes about its business. This idea of One keeps coming back... and I am glad to find another who can talk it in a way which I find it too. I think One is much closer to Dao than De in basic function; it is more a conceptual framework. It always includes the whole of everything. Whether we are talking non-existence or existence, One is always One; the sum of whatever. Dao and De must be a part; attributes describing its function. When designing a car, the first thing is to design a blueprint (Dao); how this will actually perform some function; as a part of how it functions is how it will actually move (De). I would be willing to accept that there is not sequence to this as if you leave out either one, there is no idea of car. An assembly line needs sequence but that does not mean the concepts of a car and how it actually moves should be thought of as a sequential arising of concepts.
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Instead of regurgitating 'location' again and again and again... nothing new is shared... Why is RED the LDT color? I already gave a hint; It originates from the Laozi DDJ... it gets more fully explained in the early alchemy texts including the Central Scriptures of Laozi and the Laozi Inscription.
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I do agree that the three energy centers, dan tian, are the triple burners (san jiao)... but it would be inproper to say the 'heart is the MDT'... rather, the MDT includes the heart energy. I see the energy centers more as you cited; energy and transformations that occur (whether physical or energetic or spiritual); the heart plays an important role over the entire body (called the Supreme Governor) and for healing; this is the strongest Qi we have.
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I have only quickly skimmed it to get the gist... and while I see the obvious common thread of breathing, it did seem more like a puzzle to put together when they are not talking the same words or ways. I also had a similar sense reading Taoist Yoga by Lu Kuan Yu. The preface seemed the most ordered and explained part. And to be honest, I think that also is the case a little bit with Yang's Embryonic Breathing; one has to piece together the various translations to see how they fit towards a system (but I know he spells out the system eventually). This last book is my favorite due to the translations. Do you have any comparisons between these three?
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Although the thread is actually quote old, I did want to resurrect the original post concerning this book. SInce the thread started, did anyone get this book? Ironically I was handed this book last week by someone to read. Here is the cover at Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Primordial-Breath-Ancient-Prolonging-Treaties/dp/0944558003 For H.E. The cover has these slits which appear to be like bamboo slips but it is actually the Jade Inscription...
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Well, there is very consistent language across many texts to suggest One, Dao, De, Heng, Tai Ji, are at times all interchangeable. I think when they are talking about one particular aspect, it is hard not to keep the other aspects in mind (as MH was saying) as they form a part of the whole operation. But each can be discussed individually for clarify but I personally can't separate them into orders. I do think DE is the one of the most underdeveloped concepts and it is a shame that it lost its first position in the book title.
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Yang further describes how the intestines are long conductive tissue between lining, water, etc... all to act like a storage battery... and that the UDT and LDT are connected via the thrusting vessel (some will say the Tai Ji Pole). This allows the 'two brains' to communicate with the UDT able to be like an EMF, generate a force with the mind. See: http://books.google.com/books/about/Qigong_meditation.html?id=sJsTAQAAMAAJ
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Yang in his Embryonic Breathing book (P. 122) talks of the false and real dan tian. JoeBlast said this in another thread to explain it (and there is a picture on one of the pages) http://thetaobums.com/topic/24169-lower-dan-tian-heat-gfm-vs-embryonic-breathing/
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Yes... in fact, I am surprised by anyone who claims to be involved in energy work but does not know this or any of his books. They are really the best starting point, IMO, for anyone. We are all fingers pointing... edit: If any PM me their email, I will gladly send an early and brief book of his in pdf... unless someone tells me how to upload here. Dr-Yang-Jwing-Ming-Chi-Kung-Health-and-Martial-Arts.pdf
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I can't speak for the other post and apologize for coming in where I did to interject a quick read... My observation on these posts may be the difference in one defines "you". I understand 81Chapters (and I could be wrong) as saying that anything which makes up "you" is "you" and if that lives on... then "you" are living on... So if Chi or Te Live on... YOU live on. Your use of "you" seems to disassociate Qi and Te from onself... not sure if I am correct in that or not. I am not agreeing or disagreeing... I am trying to share how I view what was said. It is a fundamental question of what "You" means... purely physical... or does it have a prior source which it simply returns to...
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what was said is: You are your body, your Chi & your Yi; AND TE is a piece of Tao INSIDE You
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I think this idea has a footing in terms of 'sequentialism'... not sure if that is a word... but Chinese did not see life as sequential (horizontal) as much as vertical. I am not sure that makes a difference as it is upward linear... But until we see simultaneous appearance, I think we want to see Sequential appearance only because our minds prefer it... we have fingers... so we count. But a reasonable idea in the physical realm indeed...
