dawei

Elaborating is one thing... too many words is another thing... I guess you didn't realize what 'holding the center' (tongue) can mean... Is there something to discuss?

IMO, we acquire or stimulate energy from at least: 1. Food 2, Exercise 3. Massage 4. Acupuncture 5. Energy practices 6. Breathing 7. Herbs There is no perfect formula; it is personal and one can vary their areas. I have tested various combinations and simply living is actually the best way. The more we are caught into the trap of 'needing to practice' the more unnatural the thought... JMO. BTW: only one of the above we can do 24/7... so this isn't really a trick question after all...

Is that from Chapter 5? That is the topic you are posting in... I just want to know if your posting something for discussion or you are venting or doing what now. Let's stick to the chapter as Sree appears to want to do. That is the simple agreement of the subforum.

Nice post... and I threw the 'pitch' out there in brevity to suggest in my own tongue-in-cheek way that simple answers are not going to answer what is a complex question. I have tinnitus and can test the pitch (press lower jaw against palm with resistance and pitch will sing another tune). I am more inclined to look at the environmental influences and structural causes. I am a Yin Water Rabbit... so the rabbit hole is my home... Best !

I thought to comment about treading lightly with the heart but you have now beat me to that As for printed material or JJ stuff, send me a PM with your email. not sure I can find it. I can't speak to a person's long term results as most of my work was part of classes and clinicals; So I did not see them much later. The practitioners would very often work on each other and so I did get to see some practitioners change over time. So I have seen several releases and much crying as a part of it. I can't say that i have seen a full blown breakdown but a few patients which came clearly had severe emotion traumas or depression. One 'felt' very much like her spirit had already left her. Another like her energy was simply evil. I think Michael can speak better to case studies and that would be an interesting topic.

Too many valid variations and so little time... I have done what you relate and would agree that a 3-D compression is a good method... and in which case you can breath in the front and back gates too (not sure if you were suggesting also breathing in at those spots). I have also done it as breathing in the top and bottom of the taiji pole (crown down front and root up back) to rotate the energy forward like a ball rotating (3-D), and then after a while to start compressing it smaller and smaller and smaller till a pearl... one can then use that visualization to move the pearl along the MCO... then when completely finished doing MCO and back at the LDT let it completely expand outward.

yes, that describes it better and what I experience (teeth and lips, etc). Thanks. @ GMP: thanks.

So your sharing something similar to GMP but you specifically mention Reverse Breathing whereas I took his explanation a Normal Breathing. But in your method I assume you have led the energy into the conception vessel by the time you drop the tongue? In leaving the tongue always up and connected, I will get feedback that the energy is truly moving between the vessels as my front teeth will get numb. Do you get this sensation with the constant up and down of the tongue?

I mentioned the central location of the heart and that it is centrally located to many of the emotional energies of the organs. "The heart is the ruler of the five organ networks." - Huainanzi The 3rd chakra corresponds to the Yellow Court which is the unprocessed emotions of the heart (lower storage chamber of the heart) When you work on clearing up channels or energy areas, you break up stagnant (or suppressed) energy... releasing this energy is of course the goal but you will release emotional energies. People will differ in how those emotional energies are released depending on what has been stored or suppressed, but some may experience something akin to a breakdown. For you, the 3rd chakra is Yin. The frontside gate oversees the emotions and the backside the will. I recall one lady which I provided some Medical Qigong and she had severe emotional problems buried. When I did the simple 'raking' of Qi down her body the vibrations over her Yellow Court area made my hands painful. I could not even approach it. I decided the only direction of release was going to be vertically upwards (she was laying down) and since I was not able to approach her frontside gate I approached the area from the backside gate.

Yes, you have reverse breathing correct. 1. Inhale = compress abdomen (energy rises up the back from LDT) 2. exhale = expand abdomen (energy back to LDT) Vase Breathing. I had not heard that term but the term others are using, "Tummo" which is a Tibetan method of breathing whereby your body can withstand the external influence of cold or ice. I once read the Tibetan method and was taught a variation so there could be some differences in what people might say is the method... but you can search Wim Hof (The Iceman) who is one of the only westerners to achieve the practice. Also look on Youtube for demonstrations and tests that universities have done on him.

I think visualization is important so thanks for using that. But I am still trying to get your explanation and to see if we refer to the same exact use of 'circuit'. I am using this word to mean a connection between the conception and governing vessels. 1. On breathe in with tongue up the circuit is open - To me, tongue up is the circuit is connected or closed [loop] 2. Then drop tongue to create the circuit from third eye back down to LDT and breathe out. - To me, tong down is an open circuit (governing and conception vessels are not connected). The other thing that confuses me is the order. If I were to move the tongue between stages, on the inhale of normal breathing (downward then upward to third eye) the circuit does not need to be closed so the tongue could be down. On the exhale when the energy is brought back down to the LDT, the circuit needs to be closed (tongue up). I might try this but wanted to make sure I understand your method.

tinnitus: High pitch: Kidneys Low pitch: Liver Alternative: structural or damage to ear. Or jaw stress which seeps it's way into the inner ear.

I wondered whether to mention it or not... as it is a 'location' and I was more interested in the overall center. This is CV-12 in the front and GV-6 in the back. Essentially the solar plexus and yellow court area... emotions beware !

Aaron is the initiator of the entire subforum... and moderator of the subforum. I am not sure what the point of your challenge to him but most of us would like to simply discuss the chapters. You have a wealth of knowledge that if someone wants to start a 'Sir Chi' thread they are more than welcome to have a two person discussion over many years.

typical ploy to prevent discussion... pick one of two extremes.... the lack of discussion in your posts does question why you are here. If you want to only hear from Sir Chi, then get his email. If your willing to talk to one and all, then act like it and discuss openly the chapter topic. ah... I can't be responsible for personal reactions to english words which you interpret.... Your not seeing the deeper point, which is my point overall. If you need someone to teach you english expressions then you'll need to appoint another "Sir". Again... your nationalism, xenophobia, and bigotry is speaking... why do I need to find a chinese this way? Let's get beyond ethic backgrounds please. Your wear your stripes proudly but let's put down the guns. Your not telling me anything I don't know or have experienced in the US or china... What you say is valid to a degree and I accept your expression. But your stuck in some kind of thinking that nobody can know another way outside of their own upbringing. that is a limitation of your own thinking and way. I know that people like to think in terms of herd and the masses and forget there are outliers and people who see beyond the norm and beyond the physical realm and experience something beyond the senses and can talk about that which is unseen. I know this is not for you to understand but realize there are others who do. The world is not as only you see it. Welcome to 10,000 varies ways of mankind. Do you want to specifically discuss the chapter or harp on divisive issues? You said your are a DDJ addict... but you seem to not share any understanding and only ask questions from one person alone... What do you hope to gain from your questions? I would suggest you try Qigong or other meditative practices to get beyond the mental angst you are projecting here. Your in some kind of pain which is getting spewed out on the website. While I am somewhat curious to see where it goes, I can see the symptoms... but the final outcome is yours alone.

And if I did harm... was that the sender or receiver's verdict? It seems the conversations have nothing to to with the chapters... I wish someone would just delete all the BS going on here... including mine. But to 'keep the center' is not to judge; no verdict needed. but strike the gavel as needed

You require scientific verification for other's comments; so where is your scientific verification? Of is this some personal feeling? Let's leave bigotry out of this website. There is no need to stir the grass in order to awake the snake (打草惊蛇) Are you saying that chinese philosophers embody 铁面无私 ? And that makes them the keepers of understanding the DDJ? You have some good points to share but some of us are not oblivious to the chinese xenophobic proverb: "We can fool any foreigner".

I don't think I said anything about his translation being invalid nor not scholarly in attempt. If one has read his two translations they cannot not see copious notes and comments. I have both translations. I appreciate his efforts. Poetic attempts only has the advantage (and disadvantage) of seeing something deeper (or not) and convey some mystery if possible. One irony to me is that Hinton, whom I like very much, is much more a DDJ literalist... yet he is much more well known for his bevy of chinese poetry translations. I don't have a single translation I would live by. I go by an inner sense and nobody has meet that without fail, although I will accept if that is partly my failure. But it is in my nature to be eclectic.

I am curious about this as it treats Qi as at a specific location rather than moving continuously through the MCO. While our mind might be at a location (moving location to location), the Qi is always moving and ever-present. While I would agree that the drop will do little negatively like cause Qi buildup as we are usually not having our tongue at the fire position (although I try to leave mine there 24/7) and it will travel through the jaw to connect to the conception vessel... I would be interested to hear the reason for the tongue drop.

I personally have no need to do that but if it helps you then do it. What works today for you may not be needed next year... Maybe you need to do some sort of purging relaxation before meditating to get the energy out of your head/eyes and down and out your feet. Become a melting snowman till your a pool of water which then evaporates.

Except my understanding (admittedly not experience) is there is energy lost through the eyes when open... similar to the huiyin area losing energy if it is not 'locked' at appropriate times... as opposed to eye gazing where one is acquiring energy through the eyes.

As was mentioned concerning chinese thought where opposites can be true, I do think it applies here... If one wants to emphasize the storage ability [energy center] then they may simply mention the solar plexus is the location; if one wants to emphasize the regulating ability [healing center] then the heart may be mentioned as the location. I would accept both as correct in the bigger scheme. Interesting thread and many interesting posts. thanks for starting this.

I think the actual 'locations' are best to be thought of as simply: 1. Head 2. Chest 3. Stomach And to follow what Jerry Johnson is suggesting which is that the area is larger than we usually think of as it has a lot more function then we realize. So it is useful to get into the details and understand what goes on in these areas. I see it similar to talking about a car's engine... it is simply located 'under the hood' but one can talk about the carb, or exhaust, or transmission, etc... you can break them down and get more discrete locations but don't lose sight of the whole area. The MDT stores and transforms energy. It is central to the emotions; the unprocessed emotions are lower (yellow court is like a lower court for the central controlling heart energy) and the processed emotions are higher in location (heart). One will probably 'feel' energy more in their heart area as heart energy is the most powerful and it is centralized location of refined and processed emotions; But note proximity of lungs where sadness and grief are associated; also think how one gets a 'lump in their throat' from anxiety (spleen). Or one says their 'heart dropped into their stomach' from fright (liver). The solar plexis is more the storage area but most are not accustomed to developing this energy center. Here is a practice I learned: 1. Lay down and breath normally through the LDT. Let the stomach rise and fall. Only the stomach should be moving. 2. Shift the breathing of air up to the lungs. Only the lungs should be moving. 3. Shift the breathing to the solar plexus. Only the solar plexus should be moving. Someone trained in teaching this would be able to monitor how you do and assist in understanding how to isolate each area and then eventually how to move the energy from one breath/location to the next breath/location, and eventually to go between any two in succession. The most difficult part is the solar plexus breathing as one will often use their lungs or stomach to assist in it. This is a useful practice to help focus on the solar plexus and develop it.

MB: You don't have the pedigree to be called 'Sir'... you are a simple follower of faith like enlightened masters How many times have we seen this game and one can connect the dots fairly easy. While I respect Hendricks work and what he did for the oldest texts (Guodian, Mawandui) I do feel he lacks the higher realm understanding... but to be fair, although there are several chinese translators that I read and like, they also lack it. Although chinese may have the historical and inner sense, if one lacks the higher realm then it is simply missing part of the whole, IMO. Those westerner's which have some energetic or spiritual background seem to get closer, so I don't think pedigree is enough of an excuse to disqualify them... but again, we have heard this before here and will again in the future I am sure...

Also try about one inch above mid brow...