dawei

It seems most times when Taoism is mentioned its pre-Lao Zi stage is rarely mentioned which was neither philosophy nor religion... if we keep going deeper they will eventually dissolve back to that state of oneness. For anyone interested in the topic, further reading: http://www.chinahistoryforum.com/index.php?/topic/19538-difference-between-dao-jiao-and-dao-jia/

The problem with this is that this is actually a Western idea (invention); Eastern thinking tends to not distinguish them so much. This has been an academic debate for at least 40 years. Kirkland has written quite a bit about it but here is one example: http://kirkland.myweb.uga.edu/rk/pdf/pubs/VARIETIES.pdf

Why the fixation on 'blue'? You should explore why this color is dominant in your thinking while it may have no association to what you want. Define your purpose first. From what I know and experience, blue is more often a part of other colors; Green-Blue and Black-Blue. On it's own, it is not significant. What one has to embrace the ever-unfolding... So here is a chinese character to let unfold: 青, Qing. http://confusedlaowai.com/2011/11/color-%E9%9D%92-really-blue-green-help/ You need to forget colors and assignments. Embrace unfolding.

Think Yin Yang diagram (fish eyes)

It is much more effective to use the tip of your thumb since you can 'feel' the problem; often it will be a little thicker or more fleshy in a spot. To be effective in using this, the practitioner should develop the ability to feel the problem. How would someone unconscious tell you where the pain is?

What is the source for those 5 types? If one looks at Yang, Jwing-Ming's books, he lists 3 (Medical, Martial, Spiritual; the last as a further breakout); the medical qigong program I started uses the same. I have a chinese medical qigong book which lists it out differently. I think it depends partly on what angle one is taking your list may be more "energy" based than specifically Qigong based. Let's not believe that Qigong is the final word on the field of "energy" practices.

the cultural stories are interesting. I had to get used to being asked if I wanted alcohol at breakfast... along with the leftover duck, spicy fish and vegetables. My breakfast is generally very simple (eggs are enough) and the one time of day I do put my foot down about drinking since otherwise I won't have any feet to put down But it is a culture which does also take drinking to a serious level as well with all the home-made brews one can encounter. In one trip I was presented with a "3 year brew". I just returned and brought back various items to make my own brew (ginseng, roots, animal parts, etc). I will watch it for 3 months before I can drink it. How this stuff reacts to the energy levels of the body is another story in itself.

"Truth" is a very interesting topic from a chinese point of view... but truth does not have to be truth necessarily in the way often put forth (something that is not arguable nor deniable beyond any reasonable doubt). It can simply be of historical significance or lesson (even if based on apocryphal pieces). But truth is most often depicted based on the past (ie: look at the oft Confucian reference to the Sage-Kings, Yao and Shun). As if to say the past is but a picture of the present and future in regards to truth. Whether ZZ's concept is likewise built off the described Confucian ideas mentioned in the previous posts I cannot really comment.

Everyone's body and reaction is different... but experiences are really quite interesting... and as they go, mine is similar. I discovered this in my trips to china where consuming alcohol is a daily holiday. Particularly in the northeast where it can get to 70%, one has to be careful in their giddy consumption among those who will show up at a local clinic the next day for an IV to recover. But I found after an almost year break from traveling there, when I returned, I was able to consume 2x more of the jet fuel than normal despite I don't get close to that level of consumption otherwise. In fact, they quickly dubbed me by the applicable term "Da Jiu Gui" (Drinking Ghost). Anyways, I don't necessarily recommend believing it works that way for everyone nor should be attempted. But I am not one to stand on a pulpit and expound the opposite either. It's your experience in the end.

Yes, immaterial... kind of like Dao

Not necessarily. Use of the personal name would also be a sign of disrespect... ZZ is the story-teller here, after-all. But overall, very interesting info and possible connection. Thanks.

Yes. That translation is consistent to the point I was making.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion so I am not sure why you feel it necessary to state your sorry. There is nothing to be sorry about. And I really don't get the now second use of ***** Personal feeling filter ON ******** Is this supposed to be something useful for the topics being discussed?

I made an early assumption you would

Ok... don't get too excited with your reply. I gave no typing indication of excitement but you did (!!!). Maybe just calm down in your responses. I have said All along that there is no difference... I pointed it out again here (ZZ wants one to drop 'this or that') and that was the question I posed to you. Maybe you just didn't understand what I was asking/suggesting. If you don't really understand then ask a question instead of getting all worked up over a reply. But I see that nobody has answered XieJie's question of the meaning of 'one-leg'... so I am hoping to hear something more meaningful.

That is an interesting thought... that Xun was the highest [of the three] levels; an Immortal from Gu Ye. I had not thought in that line. Why didn't someone just say that at the beginning I had thought he was probably (Ok... an assumption) at the Liezi level; deep seeker but not the immortal status but I'm reading for the first time and open to what unfolds here.

Interesting that the ancients held such a karmic-like idea... but let me clarify I am not making any assumptions here, just a comment. This last line is translated by Yutang as: The fingers may not be able to supply all the fuel, but the fire is transmitted, and we know not when it will come to an end. Because the first word 'Zhi' can be: finger / To point out, indicate, to show, demonstrate / to indicate or refer to / to depend on / to count on / The second word 'Qiong' can be: poor / impoverished / destitute / to exhaust / to trace to the very source / distress / affliction / the extreme / the farthest / an end Yet he turns around the idea as 'supplying'. To me, this misses the idea the sentence is creating: It seems to me that this is 'demonstrated' by a fire 'dying' down to soot and ashes ('exhausted' as to 'an end'); Yet the fire (or flame) transmits (or carries on) without knowing (or holding an idea of) its end. Legge and Yutang (and others) make the ending as "We" don't know its end... I don't think that "we" are the focus; the fire itself (ie: nature) is the focus. It's not so much that nature doesn't know but as I think it means: doesn't hold any thought or idea about an end (or a beginning for that matter). It ties to what he just said the sequence of coming and going in its proper time.

If one turns it around, then one sees that everything is ordinary to nature since nature is without discrimination; but that is just creating the "this or that" construct. So the metaphysical interpretation may be to just not hold discrimination?

Exactly. It is not so much Yao's ability to have stabilized the world which turns Xun away but he had (possessed) something more important. Later Yao founds this. (I wonder if I had shared that thought/opinion/belief earlier, then I would of been warned to not make such 'early assumption') nice write-up Miro.

Interesting that in the cooks own words, he describes it as the method of Dao but so far nobody has tied back the cook's Way to the great Way; it seems that the explanations are just study hard, gain knowledge from doing it and one day you will master it. I recall the book, The Art of Archery in which a german man describes his experience going to Japan to study archery. One day he called his master and said, "look !" And then proceeded to get bullseye after bullseye... The master huffed away and stated he has produced nothing and was to leave the student. Of course, the german student was shocked since wasn't that the goal; to get bulleyes? Isn't it the goal just to cut through the meat and not waste knives? This is the kind of goal [seeking] which ZZ says is useless.

Other than useless, I am not sure what your fishing for great Kun-Peng I think they can act as a pointer for transformation if one heeds their completeness. In the case of Yao, he goes from seeing his own uselessness and wants to pass off the throne; yet after meeting the 4 'Zi' he seems to 'forget' what it means to be 'incomplete' or 'complete'. He is : 窅然喪其天下焉 - his throne appeared no more to his deep-sunk oblivious eyes - Legge I tend to see Yao is also as one 'seeking' something and he has a almost mystical 'forgetting' occur; Thus, this may of moved him from an Arrived Man to a Spiritual Man.

Thanks for clarifying... you brought in 'doubt' when that was not a part of what I was getting at, but we are open to sharing our belief about the passages.