dawei

I want to get through The Water Book. I think a few shorter works would be interesting to do.

K, Your essentially right... "Through meditation, the body's alchemical processes of internal energy transmutations can be cultivated. Jing can be used to create or increase Qi; likewise, Qi can be used to create or expand the Shen. This creative cycle also works in reverse order by transforming Shen to Qi, and Qi to Jing" -- Dr. Jerry Johnson, Chinese Medical Qigong The steps would be: Prenatal transformation: Dao > Wuji > Shen > Qi > Jing Postnatal transformation: Jing > Qi > Shen > Wuji > Dao

Yes, that is very true, the MCO is happening all the time anyways. The issue to me is: 1. The quality of that Qi flow in terms of blockages; think a heart with buildup! 2. The volume of Qi available for the orbit. Practicing the MCO can improve both issues. And I agree, there are many perspectives and methods; each has a use or purpose.

Han historians considered him as a Huang-Lao philosopher; Zhuangzi lists him with Tian Pian and Peng Meng leading up to Lao Zi. The legalist Hanfeizi attributed various ideas to him. This is very reminiscent of a Huang-Lao type of guy. I won't argue his various ideas but I do think it would be better to translate his text here before doing Zhuangzi !

Well... Xunzi said Zisi was deluded, foolish and oblivious to where it goes wrong... Just saying

In english, "no one in the world" or "no man under heaven" conveys connected-ness. If you cannot see it then sorry to say we're back to english comprehension

I knew you would not be disappointed I think given the later use of 'few' in the chapter that there is a subtle meaning which can be taken from that to the early lines. After all, I do also doubt seriously that Laozi believes no single person in the whole world understands; he did

Sorry to disappoint. The problem is maybe not translation but english comprehension. First off, Feng is chinese. Second, the meaning is the same in english (except MH use of 'few'). Countless natives use "no one" or "none". Liao and Flowing Hands which translations are provided in some chapters as from Daoist Masters both use "no one". Gu Zhengkun also says "no one". Chan says "none". Lin Yutang says "no one". Lau says "no one". Jiyu says "no one". Chung yuan says "no one".

The issue I have with this would be that such vapor (Qi) is nothing but mist. Yes, you can see mist about the mountains but the chapter is not about mist (suspended water drops in air) but physically flowing water on earth.

I think it depends on the participants constitution. Many in the west carry lots of stress and their movements are quite mechanical and too controlled. Getting them to 'let go' is not easy. I think for some, some form of warm-up may be helpful to get them in the frame of mind/body they need, particularly if new. Just talking from our own experience is one thing; once we try to actually teach to a group it is quite another. One should do what seems helpful. I just would not discount it so fast.

Not sure where he gets his, but this is the source of the text we are using in the Subforum Thread I started on The Water Book: http://www.tao-te-king.org/taiyi_shengshui.htm

Yes... moon cake anyone Wonder if anyone has heard the "story" of how moon cake helped to overthrow the Mongolian rule... bon-appetit !

Did you see the three I posted here? http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/20491-ttc-study-chapter-68-of-the-tao-teh-ching/page__view__findpost__p__291193 Ni is online here: (Scroll down and then click on Ni) http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/_IndexTTK.html Flowing Hands can be downloaded here: (his website) http://www.life-in-crisis.info/dao-de-jhing.pdf Liao has a book here: (Amazon) http://www.amazon.com/Nine-Nights-Taoist-Master-Deluxe/dp/0976545403/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1315840144&sr=8-1

What the previous two posts said I have moderated for years (and still do at another site), so I have a lot of empathy for the mod process and how disruptive some posting occurs and the flurry of PMs you can get about it (not that it happened here but I know it happens). Forums are generally privately owned and run by volunteer mods who do their best; which may not seem like the best at times, but it's up to the mod team and owner to decide when a change really needs to occur. I think it's very useful for members to air their ideas and vision and to that degree I applaud Stig's energy for a better board; but I think the 'demand for change' and other innuendos conveyed is the exact kind of disruption which mods see growing like a wild fire. Look how quiet it is now with both of them "cooling off"... That's what mod's consider at some point; what does it take to get the board and it's members back from the unrest. Maybe in a 'no-holds barred' board, it would take a month or more to eventually cool off and as we say, the issue dies a 'natural and slow death'; but that is the discretion of the owner and mods, IMO. I for one do not really like seeing either of those guys suspended; I had a real beef with how Scotty was suspended but I kept my strongest opinions in check since I can understand ultimately why. Relativity is not a good moderating way; Very slow suspensions followed by very fast suspensions on two cases which leave many questioning WTF is not a good feeling for members or mods... but neither of those guys exhibited the kind of 'self-moderation' which is being put forth either... which means you know when enough is enough. My feeling was, it was past enough

I understand your point... so I would point out that "crime" is not subjective for the most part (whereas Hendrick's use of 'vice' is); so you might consider to choose another word to fit your approach.

Maybe the mods took you up on your definition of "disruptive" Anyways... IMO, it was a predictable outcome.

I smell conspiracy theory here... but I don't understand why there MUST be a Taoist translation of an incomplete work? Look at almost all the ancients, particularly those which seem incomplete; the only ones willing to do any research to translate are the scholars and academic; that how they make their living. I do think Henrick's is not perfect in his translation but whose is perfect? Why harp on the questioning of his translation. And what's wrong with looking at his previous work on the Mawangdui; he spent the time researching that text why shouldn't he look at it? (Rhetorical).

I implied that indirectly with my rhetorical comment that it's almost impossible to find ANY... but there is Hendricks... ergo... it is ONE but not necessary a Taoist one. English can be very subtle at times.

One is lucky to find any translation of the Guodian online... but here is Hendrick's version: http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/English_HenricksG_TTK.html --- This is generally a good website to be able to look at many translators including older versions (Addis & Lombardo, Suzuki & Carus, Legge, Crowley), popular versions (Chan, Lau, Ni, Red Pine, Mitchell, Feng/English, Hansen, Hinton, Wu) and several eastern translators as well. Lynn (Like Wagner, which is not at this site) does the translation based on the Wang Bi notes (not just the received text). One can also see all the DDJ versions in original chinese at the top. http://home.pages.at/onkellotus/TTK/_IndexTTK.html

Three Daoist Masters: Flowing Hands: A good soldier is never violent. A good fighter is always calm. A good winner is never boastful. A good employer treats his staff like treasures. This is known as having insight into the ways of man. Having insight, is knowing how to deal with people. Such people reflect the ways of Heaven. Ni: A good warrior is never violent. A good fighter is never offensive. A great victor defeats his opponent, but not by challenging him. A great commander is humble. This is called the power of non-contention. This is also called making use of the effort of others. To follow this is to follow the pattern of the subtle law of the universe. Liao: A top gentleman does not depend on martial action. A superior warrior never fights with rage. He who always overcomes never confronts. He who always leads is ever humble. This is known as the Te of non-confrontation. This is known as the ability to borrow other's forces. This is so-called "matching with the power of heaven" that was known since the ancient times.

You deserve points for using the oldest text. Thanks for sharing.

I am sure you realize that not everyone turns into a hothead and 'needs to let it out'. I was accused of being hostile when I felt none at all. And I was cursed at which was your need to do so. That's your freedom here. I really have nothing to let out and get over. I really don't have an issue to state. If you were hurt, sorry. Hope you feel better.

'stupid' and 'fuck'. But that is not provocation, right, hehehe, yes? (was that too many hehe's ?). It is hard to respond to such eloquence but you apparently have a lot to get off your chest. No problem with that. Rant on. See below... Is that one sentence or not? I may be bad at counting long posts but a singular sentence I can usually count. I have tried to stick to textual support for my opinions. If you want to offer opinions which have no textual support then that is fine. Maybe you feel this is belittling since you have no support from the text and are now defensive and want to curse and rant. I won't really converse with people in long winded rants and cursing. Everyone seems to be getting way too serious lately. Seems it is adding up as to who needs to chill out. But curse on if you need. Let it out and get over with it if you need.

Hey Mal, All is good between me and you... sorry I addressed it as "ok mods,..." I was at that point tongue-in-cheek towards Stig for all his 'mod' elevating posts... He seemed to get it with his response back to me... I can see maybe it was not an easy read for others. I apologize if I appeared to be calling the mods into a situation which was resolved (as you pointed out there is nothing to moderate); Maybe the joke was not well understood after it was resolved given the current topics. Realize: I called BS on it... he recanted. We had a laugh. How else do you want members to act? (rhetorical, I assume you like it this way). I personally don't care what you do as to future actions to Stig; I can only deal with the present and between me and Stig... ALL IS GOOD...

Where is your 'hehehehehe' now? Now all we get is this? I have no hostility at all, but your welcome to your opinion and feeling. I provided many reasons for my thought. You choose not to comment on them... instead, you provided one 'provocative' sentence... kind like a troll would... in another thread, that was grounds for suspension Took you just 67 chapters, right?