dawei

與 - and; with; together; to; for; give, grant "And" seems sufficiently clear. I bought some fruit, apples and oranges and bananas [all merged together as one 'thing' we call fruit]; which do you prefer? Ok, if forced to try and keep the "togetherness" idea: To borrow from English/Feng: Fame or self: Which matters more? Self or wealth: Which is more precious? Gain or loss: Which is more painful? Variation: When Fame joins with the self; which matters more? When Wealth joins with the self; which is more precious? When Loss joins with gain; which is more painful?

Your english does not support the idea of choosing. There is no comparison being made. If you want the comparison, you'll have to use "or" or "and"; to say "with" merges them as one; ergo, no comparative choice. Only other way around it would be: The self; the body; which one is more dear

If you make a habit of making same-sex gender jokes, then I'll call BS on it and report it... if you can control it, then I'll let it go.

I don't see anything difficult in the lines really. How can one act in wu-wei; preceive without looking; hear without listening; grasp without touching... but now one can't rule without knowing? I am more bothered by the opening two lines since 'Ming' is almost always used in a positive sense in the DDJ but here in a more negative sense. Only Goowday has a non-traditional take which gets me thinking more in another direction. Just compare Chapter 33 where 'knowing' , 'clever' and 'englightened' are also used.

Is this your second attempt to claim homophobe status??? You don't seem to follow your own advice: Gender would not matter in such cases... unless you think it is "unnatural"...

From Day 1, he has been the Shifu of Lumping into One... that was my original objection in the beginning and to this day... well... and his denial of it along the entire game... and the bob and weave or rope-a-dope of perfection...

Yes... I know that YJM teaches the reverse path as "Wind"; My Medical Qigong training teaches it as "Water". I almost didn't want to post it at the time because I know of the different uses by different teachings. It's good to hear experiences as yours. Thanks for sharing and clarifying.

If people come out yelling and screaming ANY recommendation of breathing in MCO without mentioning to get a proper teacher, is the problem. Whether one does NAB or RAB it should not just be done by reading from a book or internet. Both should have proper guidance since both have issues to be aware of. In this regard, RAB is not to be discouraged more than NAB. The proper course should be to get proper guidance and use the proper breathing for the practice. If this is followed even a beginner can learn RAB. Its coordination is harder for some and so NAB may be recommended at first but this just goes back to proper guidance. And as Scotty said... there is a difference in regards to the MCO-1.

Thanks for sharing your experience. It is important to hear that many know of NAB and RAB and are taught properly when to use them. I agree that the names are not as important as getting down the mechanics and that is where a good teacher/master is essential to learn under, not just google and books I am not a follower or expert on his technique which is drawn from Tibetan practices and The Secret of the Golden Flower. His BFM is a method to activate Kundalini but is not anything to do with MCO; it is closer to the turbine flow in terms of the 'direction' of flow; meaning one is not reversing a breathing practice but at some point the perceived direction of the turbine flow reverses. There are three general steps: 1. Diaphragmatic Deep Breathing (gets it started and done until you reach #2) 2. Reach the point of breathing stillness (breathing without any awareness of it) 3. Backward Flowing Method (you use your mind to reverse the flow direction) In Waysun Liao's Tai Chi Classics he has diagrams of the turbine flow forwards and backwards but it is tied more to the MCO or circulating practice. I agree. I found the same thing in regards to whether my huiyin was really moving or not despite my deep breathing; I found it was not... it is more than just thinking of it as a breathing practice or technique.

I mentioned in another thread that I have 'turned the Qi' over in rotation (some call it Turbine or Beating and Drumming, etc), in the NAB; then do the MCO in RAB. This is a back to back reversal of breathing. This is just ONE specific teaching. It is one of many, many, many... which was the point trying to be made here. It is ok to define one MCO method as NAB and breathing into the Dan Tian, as the OP did. I would guess that 99% of those here would say they agree this is a basic practice... ergo, there is nothing new presented... but the minute someone suggests it is THE ONE AND ONLY practice is a individual choice. There are many practices; just as their are many colors to our skin. Either accept the diversity or treat everyone else as having some problem. As a final note, I do agree with your point that there are methods to do MCO without first completely filling the dan tien. Just because one person says it cannot be done only means THEY cannot do it. IT does not mean IT CANNOT BE DONE... There is so much that can be done once you allow and invite it. Many, Many variations exist.

In MQ... your in a serious defensive mechanism... it is rational and intellectual... It has already be explained here: You said it all with "I DON'T KNOW..." That is case closed. Thanks.

In my thought... Dao and Light simply point to something higher. There is a dissolution of all things or concepts (colors too). Dao is definitely not the highest thing; if we thought it then it is not the highest... JMO.

In another thread I related some experience and someone pointed out this was a Kundalini experience. As I researched that, I found that it was true, although I was in no way following that idea or experience; it arise out of my own energy work. I cannot really comment too much more but to say that different energy practices can reveal another so-called theory. Once experienced, one tends to look to understand what occurred.

I wonder to what degree we base all our thoughts and comments on the "now"; what we perceive, which may include Dao or Light... when do we get beyond this physical experience. So what is not Tao or not Light? I think it is the beyond Tao and light; beyond now.

It is true that people can only talk about the level of experience they have practiced or encountered; it is not the stuff of 'book learning' alone. Each level should draw us to another higher level; if one does not want to ascend that is fine; they should at least recognize their intentional decision to stay at the level where they are and hopefully they get the fully measure of that level. Beyond physical and phenomenal is a step closer to the source and which sometimes words cannot describe so easily. There is spirit and light; there is the beyond physical. One way to practice the beyond physical is to progress beyond self and be involved with another's energy. This is my opinion but it is quite logical to realize that the energy one person feels is also felt by others; ergo, you can also feel their energy. This leads to not just feeling another's energy but interacting, combining, directing, guiding their energy... it leads to another world of experience. Closer to the source but only a small step... many steps, if one dares...

I am curious how many have connected to the chakra of another person, in terms of reading them and healing? It seems most share what they think based on their own experience in their own body but what can we ultimate say about it if we are only basing it on ourselves alone. I am happy to read of personal practices but it seems to me that as long as any practice is only for yourself you only get a limited view. There are many energy systems which treat the chakras of other people.

He does not share so easily but he tries to tell you what your missing

You said to the effect: "deep breath into dan tian is the MCO". That is a precursor to the MCO, as Kali points out to build up the energy. This really means nothing until you provide details of the 'micro cosmic orbit' itself ; understood? I already told you in the first response to this thread: You are describing the Fire Cycle using NAB.. This is the most basic way, using Buddha Breath... which some have dubbed as "abdominal breathing" or NAB. You are not reading what others are saying. You know the fire path with NAB... Nobody disputes that as a valid and fundamental method. BUT; that is NOT THE ONLY MCO path and breathing method. You have yet to share anything of interest concerning the MCO. You talk of baby food when most here are practicing many levels beyond that basic method. When anyone tries to share it, you pass it off as not your understanding. That is fine. Nobody is saying your method is not true. But if you try to pass it off as the ONLY truth, then your missing what is being said: There are many methods and teachings, not only the one basic one.

but you have never shared your personal experience with MCO; only run off to check some native sources. Explain from beginning to end how you do the MCO... personally speaking. If there is not personal experience, just say it. What Kali shares is fairly common explanation in the sense that one needs the energy to do the MCO. But there is no explanation as to what 'path' or what breathing is done in that experience. In other words, until a person shares exactly how they do (did) the MCO, you cannot really respond. But that explanation given is not the same as yours (deep breathing means the MCO is open). You should realize you can learn from the post. As to what Kali shares about blockages is true... that is why the ancients said to do '3000' breaths and why this got rounded to 100 days. Did you ever mention this or understand this? And did you know why RAB is more effective at this? What you appear to know about the MCO is nothing but diagrams and native sources. You are always welcome to share your extensive EXPERIENCE in PERSONAL MCO practice at any time...

Same for me, along the taiji pole. And when working on someone else to clear out a chakra the taiji pole is helpful to energize after the clearing (by popping the chakra out) to make sure the chakra is seated well.

Exactly!

Imagine running the MCO in another person; you have to know which path and where to root it (it's not always in the LDT). Logic can be a barrier with such things.

If I had to explain it... then I need to explain "do not...." which is Wu Wei... which is a form of doing naturally.

Apparently I used a term but you assumed some social connotation while I have a Laozi concept of Wuwei... We are entitled to our different applications without assumptions but seems you did not ask me to explain my first use but went on with an assumption of your use. NO problem... act on.