dawei

Why? You said you have practice Qigong for 30 years... but you have never heard such things as this??? Oh, I forget... Qi is chaotic; MCO is a mystery; Shen is ignored... I hope you can understand what is going on here.... or are you the last to know?

I must assume you do no qigong practice or energy work then. Or else you have no concept of no-action... well known among among almost all on this site as "Wu Wei". If it needs to be explained then it's not needed. Maybe your just into forcing action according to will. I am not sure how to understand your point... but I can guess.

The internet was ultimately a better source than the Qigong masters you talked to? What year did you talk to them? Researching where? Reading or practicing? why does logic need to be the conclusion.. If you want to get to where the practice is leaing, it will require you to drop all logic. JMO

When I hear "Golden Rule"... it is Western and biblical... If one has any knowledge of the east, it goes as: The eastern [reverse] rule is: "Do not impose on others what you do not wish for yourself." The former is about about action; the latter about no-action.

This is what I felt was the point of your original thread... maybe not but it does not matter now that I am writing my thought. This is why I jumped in and got interested. I don't care if you close down and stop posting here or just open another thread on this idea. As I previously said, I cannot really handle 1000 word manifesto writing but I truly believe you have much more to share which I would like to read.

What is the origin of the golden rule and its meaning?

Except I fess'ed up here: I did not hold back from self-expression of my feelings... Do you want to call me on something which I have already acknowledged or do you want to just share an observation which I already revealed too? We are in agreement and I shared it... So what is your real point if you have read all the comments What can I say... I like to call BS on stuff... and I was the first to do so... and now about a few months later almost a dozen or more have done it too. DO you seriously not also see this? Let's be honest for a moment... --- edited: sorry.. you are equally honest, I did not read all the post he is chinese.. we need to give him a western break --- Edit #2: I am a mod at another, unrelated topic website... but I know how to find people... there are at least two here posting in this forum area who have spam'ed up other websites in the exact same way as they are doing here and now. I really don't care so much for self-proclamation and 'I am the messiah' complex... but I am happy to let the TTB members blindly follow as they want.

I can understand why you say this but testing theory with practice is the only way to truly accept and understand the theory. You apply too much logic and throw out the practical experience with the bath water. I think you have a tremendous amount of knowledge (particularly for a native) but the more you talk about all these issues about Qigong, I realize the less you truly now. This is not to be personal, unless we want to say it is my personal observation.

Documented archaeology and personal experience/practice are quite relevant. I suspect you would rather we all just listen to what your chinese sources writes without anyone challenging it; despite you asked for "please comment". I rather grow tired of you setting up your podium and asking people their thoughts when you just want them to blindly accept what you (or your source) says. I guess we are not allowed to sort out the irrelevant portions.

I think the 'trap' is an indirect way of saying barriers are build up around it from environmental, societal, emotional, etc influences. While there may be something to 'increasing De' (not that you mention it but I've heard it before), I think the bigger issue is descreasing the barriers; then relatively speaking De increases.

You need to realize that the origin of Qi circulation pre-dates Laozi... There were no Taoist at that time. Yes, later writings are quite varied in their explanation and choice of words; even Laozi shows this hidden meaning. You get only part of the picture, IMO... it is just a physical exercise in your explanation. I think your reading too many modern explanations since you have to accept that all spirituality was removed from TCM and Qigong by .... you know what forces... This is the "Fire Path" that most know and talk about. There has already been much discussion as to its varied uses... but in general it was a required stepping stone to spiritual practices. Again... this is only part of it. One example of using the MCO with NAB. There is also RAB and other paths than Fire... So what you want to stick to [for now] is just the Fire Cycle using NAB.

There is the story of the Rabbi who went into meditation for 3 days after the 9/11 bombing. When asked what blessings did he ask for, what spiritual guidance did he request, etc.. he simply said: “I was looking for the terrorist in me”. --- Palmirotta, tracing the meaning of Ontosophy, relates: “Thus the term 'Sophos', intended as being aware of a psychic and intentional knowledge-energy in the living being or in the world of existence, was created by the Indo-European history and culture before “Logos” and had a wider and more radically cosmic meaning, but it was Logia, not even Logos, as it’s main etymo…” With the separation of body and soul an unfortunately dichotomy was created breaking the unity that really exists. This perception (or illusion) forces us to think in terms of body and sense perception and phenomena, etc. So I personally find the thread an interesting challenge to our [rationally and historically imposed] understanding of Ontosophy. I am not sure it is what others might call 'spiritual wisdom' but I do see it as trying to break free (or drop the barriers) from just worldly wisdom.

I guess you prefer false kindness over honesty... or at least you don't see the kindness in honesty... the consistent false pretense of just wanting to be PC is getting quite old... sorry... maybe we should withhold such honesty for the sake of kindness.

It has essentially shocked me from the beginning of this issue to hear someone suggest that Laozi believes homosexuality is not normal (wrong). And it seems disingenuous to simply claim this is 'pure logic', particularly after same said person has repeatedly shown a distinction between western and eastern and "his people" (ie: chinese). I guess one will find any excuse to judge others; using Laozi seems a unique low. I guess we should just assume 100% application to concepts without any regard to variation in nature. I think if there was no homosexual attraction existent in nature (ie: including man) then we would have to seriously consider the idea of Dao to be wrong since it has put a fence around 'naturally arising'.

Otherwise there is nothing to discuss and one has to wonder if discussion is even a goal or is it just self-promotion of nonsensical, non-grammatical gibberish.

I fully agree that there are many traits where originate and therefore persist from earliest times. I only question the idea of trying to 'retain the middle kingdom superiority'; IMO, there was never any doubt as to their [attitude of] superiority. What they want to retain is some form of control; if one lives among chinese you can see this very strongly playing out as a necessary [for survival]. So, their civilization (yes, not just the nation) survived due to isolationism and protectionism, which we clearly see up to this day Here is one small example which corresponds to what you suggesting: There is a small city southwest of Beijing called Baoding. (I have been there almost a dozen times; it is very small by today's standards of chinese cities at only about 1.2 million). It's name essentially translates as "protector of the capital". It held some significance during the Ming and Qing dynasty and became the capital of Hebei for a while. It is known for having been the site for the site of the HQ of Japanese forces in WWII. If you visited it today, you would find little to impress you and instead quickly try to find the first train out; they rarely see a western visitor and they are very poor and backwards despite their past; now overshadowed by Shijiazhuang, the now capital. Even Wiki can get all this right... what Wiki does not relate, since few know it, is this: Why did Baoding become the site of Japanese occupation HQ??? One will find Kissinger's basic idea at work. Even as the occupied, the city almost welcomed Japan in and gave them whatever they needed. They played the ultimate gambit; they were never slaughtered like the Nanjing Massacre. But... other chinese cities have a kind of disdain for what Baoding did; of course it is not openly discussed... one has to drink many rounds of alcohol and then stories are more often shared One thing that really grabbed me in terms of ancient origins is when I went to the Nanjing museum of history and saw items 5,000 years old. Although the Jesuits said in 1500s that the chinese were expert in imitation (ie: knock-offs), it was clear that when you walked around the museum they did this starting in ancient times. I'll try to get the book for a read. I would counter recommend this book on chinese foreign policy from ancient times to present: The Dragon and the Foreign Devils by Harry G. Gelber (as cheap as $2.99 on amazon).

I like the points you make concerning the heart-mind and tend to agree. thanks.

Honestly, I appreciate this idea since I have felt some sides of it and see many sides of it. You were much more concise and exact in your explanation and I truly follow your point. I don't care if you actually answer my original point which deals with a post you did not 'read' correctly. But there are two sides of the brain. whether they flow as one or two, there is the rational and intuition. The former seems to be easily lead by the external and the latter by the internal. Do you have some brief comment on this idea?

5ET... you are right in terms of what side of the brain most favor in typical science... I am in the opposite direction and made some wrong statements which you thoroughly correct. Maybe it is hell to be 'right' brained but to be corrected as not "right" in polarity... you seem to have the answers to us all. thanks.

Finally we get to the messiah... answer two questions... then I will decide if you are a part of the "Qi followers"... I was rash to identify this issue in his early postings and now we see he shows his "true colors"... I now want to be an initiated too. What does it take to read "sources" and proclaim all their truth on websites? My soul awaits its destiny...

Hey !!! Be easy on him!!!! He is an expert in sperm he is self-proclaimed as 30 years expert in Taiji Qigong... At 3x a day, for 30 years... yes, I used my iphone to calculate That is 30,850 ejaculations... he must be quite strong... OH!! sorry... that is mathematical calculation based on assumption. I think ChiDragon should tell us what ejaculations he/she has followed as a prescription for 30 years... He/She can round it as necessary for easy understanding.

I have absolutely stayed out of this thread but from the beginning but I felt it has merit since if a member feels it then let them speak. This was a generic feeling which is true of any forum but then focused on some (or one). I don't know you nor most of your posts that many have a history of commenting on. What little I have looked at I think you provide a stream of info and it is most often quite good consideration. You are direct, exact, and true to your belief system. You said in another post that you would not be respectful to belief systems... for various reasons. But that is what I see commendable with you; is the true alliance to your belief's. This all being said, I found your comment above very insightful. I would think based on your fairly extensive knowledge and sharing online your comments that you would understand another persons post. You responded with exact rationality to a sarcastic post. Which means either you were mocking in return or you don't truly understand how to interpret online posts. If you do not see this sarcasm then I think we can explain it. If you saw the sarcasm and choose to respond in equal terms, then your rational [veiled] response is worth a grin or two. What I suspect is that the right brain is in full flow but the left brain is on pause. I hope I did not just generate a 1000 word manifesto. I would actually like to hear a terse reponse to the ideas presented... ok, maybe I am asking too much from my first interaction with you? actually, I like you.

Hey Scotty... with you... and now I finally understand why the 'disinformation' thread was raised. The information passed off at times is actually dangerous to people's health... but grab some popcorn and enjoy the trailer; the one playing for a few months is: "I may come across as a xenophobe or homophobe or one who is a self-taught expert on Qi (chaotic concept), MCO (a mystery), Shen (forget that)... but I will teach the masses the truth based on the DDJ bible... according to MY SOURCES".

4. Little things are [more] easily disintegrated. But better would be: 4. Little things are easily dispersed. Think militarily for the ruler: A small threat is more easily dispersed --- The first four lines still need some work.