dawei

Absolutely true, it is actually quite easy to emit or receive Qi. But I have found that those who are 'open' inside are quite sensitive to sensing it.

We are talking about english word choice and connotation. By and large, if you use the word "virtue" in english, most everyone thinks morals/ethics. If it takes too long to explain what we mean by a different use of a word (virtue) then it's time to use a different word. JMO.

To me, DE acting only on the human level is really just Confucian 'virtue'; the relationship of men. So that is why I prefer to avoid using 'virtue'. For me: DE is Dao in Man... the true mutual intercourse (or exchange) and return. Ergo, it defines the relationship of man and Dao. I think that I am just making more of the metaphysical point and others would like to just point out the physical, extended meaning. I just didn't go there in order to show the background to what Gui and Shen means.

I have learned them and used them and even used them on others. I do not personally practice them as a personal consistent practice. I did it enough as part of training to understand how one can vary the sound, resonance, pitch, modulation, etc. The resonance of a particular sound is meant to free the organ of any trapped energy or disease, and will also work the tissue surrounding the organ. Since stored emotions can be a source of problems it could also release trapped emotions. There are six sounds as a base and six more for severe conditions. A soft sound might get better mental reaction (your awareness and connection to that organ) but does not have as much healing reaction. In general: Sounds 'purge' and colors 'tonify'. So I don't think one should just use sounds for the sake of doing sound work. There should be a purpose and goal and that needs to include tonifying and regulating at the end; purging alone may leave your energy depleted in some area. The "Old Man by the Sea" is a well-known combination of sounds and movements: http://energymedicineflorida.com/OldManbytheSea.pdf Using all six is like a whole body tune-up. Over time, you should be able to sense if an organ responds enough or needs something more or less. If you practice them in the order of the fire cycle, you enhance the Yang energies; if in the water cycle, then the Yin energies. Done after meditation can be useful since the energy is flowing easier. If your following a book, then that is good. If you have any broken bone then don't do that area. Or if you have a sickness you have to be careful not to stimulate the problem. So in more prescribed needs (or severe like cancer), I would be more inclined to talk with someone about developing a specific routine.

The last line is interesting way to tie it all up: 故 - Gu - Therefore 德 - De - Efficacy 交 - Jiao - mutual intercourse or exchange 歸 - Gui - return/ give back / gather together / return (something to its owner) 焉 - Yan - ! So, through "De", the body and spirit mutually exchange and 'gather together' as one. The inner spirit is not disturbed and so it returns to it's owner (Gui to earth and Shen to heaven) without causing anyone harm . Lots of imagery, IMO is going on in the very end. Here is Jiao as a Bronze character: Seems to look a Body (or fish) with it's central Spirit in harmony, truly De in action.

We may not be able to extricate ourselves from the connotations that comes with the word 'ghost'. But here are more thoughts on how to understand the passage: 1. The 'fish' in the opening is really more like 'delicacy', one has to carefully handle it so as to not unsettle it. A small fish, IMO, is not a very good analogy to use since the smaller the fish the less likely it falls apart, if you've ever cooked various sizes of fish it may make sense (but it's not a big point to push). 2. Food is thought to have a spirit. So don't handle it too much and allow it's transformation to go without disturbing it. 3. Gui and Shen are also simply Yin and Yang as a polarity to spirit. Gui is the earthly and Shen the heavenly. Once a person died their Gui returned to the earth and their spirit lived on. If their spirit was not handled well it became disruptive to others (ie: harmed people). This was anciently called an "evil spirit". Because of the way this was thought to affect people's health; it transformed into "evil qi" over time as more medical explanations spoke of 'Qi'. So the 'cooking of small fish' is symbolic of how to handle people carefully and not disturb (or harm) them, and thus not disturb their Gui-Shen (Yin and Yang aspects of their spirit). Then when they die, their spirit will in turn not harm others. So there is a picture of a Sage (living) who takes care not to interfere others so their spirits (inside a person while alive) do not interfere others (outside a person once dead). When these TWO (or when both) the person and the spirit are not causing harm and interference, there is harmony in accordance to the Way. Thus, their "De" harmonizes their body and spirit to 'interact in returning' (ie: promoting the natural arising and returning without disturbance).

your trying a poetic style which produces less meaning than those without a soul... but it's a free country (or forum) to spread whatever BS you can shovel... as long as your not asking others to take the shovel. I assume you do this so people won't have to actually discuss what you write; instead they are forced to ignore it or point out it's outer space origins. I would actually think that it would be better to produce something worth discussing instead of doing it this way... just my observation. I also observed (with a little google help) that you get absolutely no response at another website where you spam their folders with your translations too. With a little time to view, I can see you seem to essentially run back and forth between websites to post and get no response from either site... I guess the benefit is that now if someone googles you, they can see you spam two websites with your translations.

I think that most who translate don't really have any soul or spirit left That's why it is so absent from their translations

I note you don't even try to explain what is Tai Sui....Tai Sui (太岁). At least I looked into it. Well, that is my first try. And I'll later respond to what the Tai Yi On the Move picture appears to be... Hint: What has four faces in ancient china? --- I think I'll just stop contributing here... it is really getting too crazy for my taste.

It simply amazes me that every translation shown translates Shen (神) as power. In almost any other chapter it is "spirit" but here they want to play on the idea the demon/evil/ghost, GUI (鬼) and it's SHEN (神) as power. I personally find this too much subscribing to mythological masturbation without really understanding these terms. The combination of terms Gui-Shen was most often translated as "spirits" in pre-han. But we do have a few examples of explaining their separate meanings. In the below note that Qi (气) is associated to Shen (most often translated as spirit); and that Gui (most often translated as ghost) is defined as "dust to dust" (returning to the earth upon death). In the Confucian text, Ji Yi (Meaning of Sacrifice): "Zai Wo said, 'I have heard the names GUI (鬼) and Shen(神), but I do not know what they mean.' The Master said, 'The (intelligent) spirit(气) is of the shen(神) nature, and shows that in fullest measure; the animal soul [GUI](鬼) is of the GUI(鬼) nature, and shows that in fullest measure. It is the union of GUI(鬼) and shen(神) that forms the highest exhibition of doctrine. All the living must die, and dying, return to the ground; this is what is called kwei [GUI] (鬼). The bones and flesh, moulder below, and, hidden away, become the earth of the fields. But the spirit(神) issues forth, and is displayed on high in a condition of glorious brightness. The vapours(气) and odours which produce a feeling of sadness, (and arise from the decay of their substance), are the subtle essences of all things, and (also) a manifestation of the shan(神) nature. On the ground of these subtle essences of things, with an extreme decision and inventiveness, (the sages) framed distinctly (the names of) kwei [GUI] (鬼) and shan(神), to constitute a pattern for the black-haired race; and all the multitudes were filled with awe, and the myriads of the people constrained to submission.'" -- Legge In the Leizi: "The spiritual(神) element in man is allotted to him by Heaven, his corporeal frame by Earth. The part that belongs to Heaven 'is ethereal and dispersive, the part that belongs to Earth is dense and tending to conglomeration. When the spirit(神) parts from the body, each of these elements resumes its true nature. That is why disembodied spirits(神) are called kuei [GUI](鬼), which means 'returning' [GUI](鬼), that is, returning to their true dwelling-place. 'The region of the Great Void.' The Yellow Emperor said: 'If my spirit(神) returns through the gates whence it came, and my bones go back to the source from which they sprang, where does the Ego continue to exist?' " -- Legge Having thus translated countless Confucian and Daoist writings, Legge's translation of this chapter goes as: Governing a great state is like cooking small fish. Let the kingdom be governed according to the Tao, and the manes of the departed will not manifest their spiritual energy. It is not that those manes have not that spiritual energy, but it will not be employed to hurt men. It is not that it could not hurt men, but neither does the ruling sage hurt them. When these two do not injuriously affect each other, their good influences converge in the virtue (of the Tao). -- Legge The Zouzhuan has: "When a man is born, (we see) in his first movements what is called the [PO] [魄] animal soul. After this has been produced, it is developed into what is called the [HUN] [魂] spirit. By the use of things the subtle elements are multiplied, and the [HUN and PO] [魂魄] soul and spirit become strong. They go on in this way, growing in etherealness and brightness, till they become (thoroughly) spiritual and intelligent. When an ordinary man or woman dies a violent death, the [HUN and PO] [魂魄] soul and spirit are still able to keep hanging about men in the shape of an evil apparition; how much more might this be expected in the case of [boyou]. … Belonging to a family which had held for three generations the handle of government, his use of things had been extensive, the subtle essences which he had imbibed had been many. His clan also was a great one, and his connexions [sic] were distinguished. Is it not entirely reasonable that, having died a violent death, he should be a [GUI] [鬼] ghost?" The Liji 11, tr. Legge, compounds hun and po with qi "breath; life force" and xing "form; shape; body" in hunqi 魂氣 and xingpo 形魄. "The [魂氣] intelligent spirit returns to heaven the [形魄] body and the animal soul return to the earth; and hence arose the idea of seeking (for the deceased) in sacrifice in the unseen darkness and in the bright region above." Compare this modern translation (Yü 1987:374), "The breath-soul (hun-ch'I 魂氣) returns to heaven; the bodily soul (hsing-p'o 形魄) returns to earth. Therefore, in sacrificial-offering one should seek the meaning in the yin-yang 陰陽 principle." Note: 1. In Legge's translation, "Manes" means 'souls of the deceased'; a perfect meaning of Gui but not well known 2. Legge says "Spiritual energy"; the confucian text above clarifies that "Qi" is associated to the spirit SHEN [ergo, Hun], as opposed to death and returning to the ground is Gui [ergo, Po]. 3. To me... and it appears to only be me so far... this is a great comparison of Hun (魂=cloud-soul,sky,3 in number) is SHEN; and Po (魄=white-soul,earth, 7 in number; also stands for the dark side of the moon) is GUI. Po is the animal soul of the Hun's celestial soul. I would put forth that the translations above have very little understanding on how to translate the text. If this is about ghosts, demons, and their power then let's just write another script for Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles or Avatar Air Bender series...

What phase or age of daoism are you referring to? If we drop the 'ism' and just said "Dao"; Is Dao about "figuring out" what reality is and how to be human? I see it as we are similar to the mist you see above water on an early morning, or the dew on the grass. On some level, if there is "thinking" going on to understand it, it's already forgotten itself.

I have waiting to reply to you so I could truly get a sense of what you are feeling. I am glad you are so open and honest in sharing what is going on. You actually would like friends and a relationship; you just don't want it to be such a desirous issue? Desire seats itself in the second chakra, a gate to the lower dan tian (just below the stomach but called the sexual chamber). But chinese medicine puts it in the middle dan tian; it is the diaphragm which keeps the lower dan tian energy from raising upwards. It gets stuck in what is called the "Yellow Court" (the place of unprocessed emotions), and not allowed to get into the heart area where it process all order and peace. When the energy is not free to flow between these areas there may be even pain felt. Now, I only ask this to see if the issue has progressed to pain; if you put your mind between your heart and stomach area and think about this issue, do you feel pain? I will only add that I think you have some expectations (maybe subconscious) which are more like social imprints as to how life is supposed to unfold and it's not happening. These patterns, once taking psycho-emotional form inside us, then tend to create issues for us.

As zero said, I am often 100% with Stig's posts and ideas which raise issues which should be discussed and challenged... but I will dissent on this one. I will at least give my reason 1. I noted [somewhere] that this is a privately run board... that seems to be enough.. but there is more 2. Being a moderator for several years (on another board), these kinds of ideas and complaints happen and should be let to run their course. Once you are in the 'inside' it is easier to take direct issue with the inner circle. 3. Mods are sometimes thought of being a the leaders of a kind of "old boys club"; anyone they know or like might get preferential treatment. Thus, they appear to handle things unfairly and a call for fairness is raised. Honestly, this is life as we know it. I honestly don't know if the subconsciousness can be rid of this for most. 4. Rotating mods does not really overcome some of the issues; you still end "us" [who have been mods] vs them [who have not been mods]; and you cannot control the thinking and behavior of preferential treatment that ensures in the long run [within the "us" who have been mods]. So, I am personally against such an idea. 5. Dropping out a moderator position to then try and create change is more like trying to muster a rebellion. You were already in a position to help create change. You should of just dropped the attachments within yourself and worked within the position you had. That is just my naive opinion without knowing you that personally and the circumstances so you'll have to forgive me on this point. But this is exactly what I did at the place I moderate. It is usually more effective and does not appear so much as an attack on the establishment (unless that is what one wants). 6. In the movie, The International with Clive Owens he says, "once in a while a hostage has to be shot"... it was a remark that one cannot just follow the prescribed path of justice to get real justice. One person (or one idea) does not outweigh the importance of the group... and one bad apple does spoil the pie... But in the movie, one guy can try to outmaneuver the stronghold position if they go "outside the law--prevailing Way". On the other hand, this "outside the group" mentality results in lots of issues; I see a few on this website who truly spoil the experience for many. So it works both ways... But I think that Mod diversity helps to balance that issue from rash decisions and keeps it all going for the group. There was a past post which you raised and someone called you out in regards to anger within or something of that. Honestly, I felt it too at the time and in a few posts. This assessment may be missing the Rosa Parks dilemma; The arresting officer had no real reason for the arrest but only said, "the law's the law" (ie: forum rule is the rule). Hopefully we have collectively moved beyond being a mouth piece of law or simple morality, but we each sit in a seat [online] with a conviction about the prevailing and constructed Way, and who is unwilling to give up that seat for the sake of a "law" (or rule)...

There is the relationship joke that if both people are exactly alike in every way then there is no need for one of them If the mods were exactly the same, then only 1 mod is enough for decision making In my experience of years of moderating, diversity is good, even in regards to mods Now... not that what you raise is not worthwhile and not that it should not go to Sean, I think it should... This helps the owners/mods in the reality check department, but I would just say that some diversity can generally be a good check-and-balance against unilateralism taken to an extreme.

No... and I don't know what Taisui is. I'm all ears.

I said this above... sometimes those who are used to seeing such posts or members or threads can easily recognize such things. I have moderated at another forum for 6 years and there are two things you can easily spot, before anyone else even thinks it: 1. Trolls: who will make some trouble or division and promote their thought or who don't understand the expansiveness of their ego or their desire to speak out against what they see. The lonely troll stays a long time and often quotes without personal opinion too much since how can you object to a quote? The confrontational troll comes out and then you get to greet them and their bias and non-acceptance; but they will lecture endlessly. Some don't even know they do this; which is truly said but it is natural to them; to be oblivious. 2. Chumming the sharks: Often this is the troll doing this but they want to make others get in trouble or they just want to create some excitement which will cause an issue. Sometimes this is subconscious or unknown by the troller who chums; it is natural for them to cause problems. They are sharks so they seek prey. On an online forum, it is all fun and games; serious and kidding; discussion and disagreement; consensus and discord. Enjoy.

So breaking a rule would justify any infraction in life? You hope all humanity follows rules alone, like a robot? I truly hope you have a higher consideration within daoism than this... I am just talking and not confronting There are rules... and then there is life

Chi Dragon. A few serious questions: 1. How many WESTERN links have you given on this TB website which would help westerners understand you various points? What links? I know you have said that it is too difficult to cite chinese links, so just cite western links... How many western links have you cited so far? Please tell me... I wait for your response. 2. Since the DDJ area is a "study", I wonder, how many times is your FIRST post a discussion item? Or do you only, as a first post, give your translation without comment? This seems to be self-promoting without any care of discussion. 3. How many threads do you start with a question to the forum but you have your own idea you want to lecture after a few have responded? You seem to like this manner of posting and lecture. What is it you want to convert us to? 4. How many western qigong books do you have in possession? 5. How many Qigong conferences have you attended in the US? 6. What Qigong activities have you participated in the US? 7. Have you every attempted to engage in anything in the US regarding Qigong in the last 30 years ? I am seriously wanting to know how you have come to understand the western concept outside of purely internet trolling. Can you seriously answer these or side-step and troll more? Waiting on baited breath... you seem to like to lecture everyone about breath... without realizing that everyone accept this.... and so much more... It is the MORE aspect !

You don't have a vague idea of any energy practices outside of Qigong? AH !!! now I can understand your inability to understand energy practices, including higher level Qigong. I am glad you have explain this. There is Kundalini, Reiki, SRI, Body talk, and a host of others which I am not exposed to but accept within Daoist, Buddhist, Ayurvedic practices. It seems you do not accept such idea as valid energy along with qigong... too bad your understanding is so limited as there is a world of energy to be embraced. You can sit under your lemon tree and do zazen. That is a good practice for a lifetime. I truly feel the purpose of this. But at some point you should wake up and realize there is a world of energy outside the lemon tree.

When I first saw this topic I had two immediate thoughts: 1. This is the kind of post which is legitimate to ask at times 2. This is the kind of post which turns into 'chumming for sharks' to come out. Some things are legitimate to ask but cannot be reasonable discussed at times. That's life.

It has nothing to do with definitions. (You don't have to be troll-like all the time.) Please share your wisdom concerning Kundalini... I would honestly like to hear of your experience and personal knowledge of it. I had taken a partial session in it a few years ago but it had completely slipped my mind as to it's energy role within the body. Did you know there are energy practices outside of Qiging?

Your repeating yourself And wrong again I found out what it was... and feel so dumb for not having thought of it. --- http://www.commonsensekundalini.com/science_spirituality/permanent_vs_temporary_kund.html Just for the record... it was NOT brought on by drugs I know someone who studied this in India and has traveled a few places around the world and she teaches this. I may talk to her.

thanks... but you could send me a PM of your guess I don't doubt it is some form of energy; but the 24/7 thing for weeks on end; and then later it happened again. As much as I was happy to see it go away at the time, right now I want to figure out how to reproduce it, if possible.

I am not sure how he defines or teaches "intent". These two words better describe [for me] what intent is about, whether purging, tonifying, regulating, light, color, sound, needles, etc. how do you have an intent of a "needle" and "light" without visualizing or imagining it (or maybe constructing it)? If you can produce the idea of a "needle of light" without any mental/cognitive reference (visual or image) of what "needle" of light" means (ie: because you must a predefined notion and definition for "needle" and "light" to construct a "needle of light") that's very cool Now maybe you mean like one wants to just go empty; that is their intent. I probably don't think of this as 'intent' for that particular activity. My practices are probably about 90% full of intent [in my definition]. So I should rephrase that this is my way of explain the kind of 'intent' I practice. I think what you would find, if you experimented, is that visualization and imagination can make intent very powerful. But I know it may not be what someone has as a goal of their practice. There are some vibrational practices which require no intent and some which do. It is a mixed bag of tricks There is probably shen level intent which can achieve no-intent but I am not there Good question