dawei

Ah, that's the problem I have argued to a few here . If you get caught up in ONE line, you miss the bigger point... ergo, I am NOT only looking at one line but the entire chapter, and book and time period. You of all people should see this, but I'll use your own words to show it: Since the unification is not for another 200-400 years, then it must be applicable to future ruler (even past). Ergo, it seems reasonable to look at the timeframe Let's have a look at what you say Chapter 48 has the same phrase of 'take over the world', twice: And it has Wu Wei, twice as well. There is Wu Wei involvement in the chapter, the book and said of the rulers numerous times. Maybe it is just me seeing Wu Wei is involved. What a novel concept I came up with

This is where we agree to disagree... it is only general as to the vision of unification. "Take over" through 'wu wei' is a bit incongruous in english usage, at least IMO; as well, it is anachronistic to put such a feeling to the time period of this writing. To 'take over' is more imminent when a real end is in sight. But the land was not unified until almost 200-400 years later. IMO, the writing is definitely prior to 350 BC since Qin was not even powerful prior to that. Chu, where Laozi was from, was one of the strongest states. Jin split in 475 BC and so the "power of seven" was shortly dominating thereafter. So the number of states was probably higher at the earliest writings with no real, imaginable end in sight; it took hundreds of years to realize. Chapter 46 mentions horses in peace and in battle; so I think this was a time prior to the full-blown struggle of seven. Even Confucius lived several hundred years prior to the unification. So another reason I don't subscribe to the idea that it is "land just taken over".

Chang did seem a bit put off (in the book) when asked to do the Levitation. My sense was that he feels those who ask are too enamored with such 'tricks'. If one seriously wants to read about that then the Tibetans were probably the masters of it.

I agree that it is in reference to rulers. Line one has 'state' in the two oldest manuscripts so I tend to prefer that usage instead of nation or country; it is the Warring States Period. I have previously stated my opinion [in another thread] that Tian Xia is also a code for 'unification'. There is a long history to unification and the Zhou wanted it as well but they lost their chance and it was a States struggle which ended with Qin. But due to the timing of this writing, I don't see line three as suggesting to master or govern or win Tian Xi; it means to acquire [a unification]. In the Warring State Period is the philosophical "School of Song Xing and Yin Wen" which espoused Daoism and wu wei (but was more from a Huang-Lao perspective; Zhuangzi mentions Song Xing). In quoting this chapter, the Yin Wen Zi went on to say 'obtain' Tian Xia (得天下). I think this is the way to understand line 3. To acquire or obtain unification of all of the States.

In Medical Qigong, they taught to develop its use (called "drumming and beating") prior to doing the MCO.

The problem may be that your not a shamanistic alchemist philosopher. Your a dictionary seeking grammarian translator. You really get there there from here. JMO. Grammar, like musical notes, never existed in that time. It's anachronistic to retrofit it all from a book of grammar. Meditate on it a few years and then translate it's meaning would be my prescription.

I like Flowing Hand's own definition: Be at one with Heaven and Earth... ... For he has become at one with the Dao.

Alquiros titled this chapter: Silent Enlightenment http://www.tao-te-king.org/056.htm

I don't associate dreaming to the brain but the liver. The liver stores the Hun and dreaming is the roaming of the Hun; the dream is the information picked up during it's travels. The ancients taught that the Hun can travel the nine levels of earth and nine levels of heaven. And the Shen (housed in the heart) when fully developed can energetically travel. I don't think it is about the brain.

The heart is called the "Supreme Controller" which can heal all things. To develop it's energetic/spiritual capacity you need to keep practice in perspective to all the energetic roles of the other organs too; they all essentially depend on each other. You don't need the heart to get to the third eye; you can do it with intention (focus) but you can also work on accessing an area about an inch or two above the traditional third-eye location. It is another realm you can access with practice. The heart can be brought into this to keep everything under control but there are some serious consequences of not doing it properly (or not have proper guidance). But this kind of practice is a bit transitory from neigong to shengong and has some projection aspects. If I get too much pressure there, I gently walk it backwards over my head and let it go; in other words, don't try to spread it down your body as if your trying to ground it out somewhere... there can be real dangers with that.

Correct. My picture concerned the Microcosmic Orbit (minor cosmic orbit). I agree with the two cosmic orbits you mention are the main two; but there are other orbits can be practice. I'll make some further comments to the OP (or others interested), but Yang Jwing-Ming's book, "The Root of Chinese Qigong" covers the orbits and the Qi circulation paths nicely. My previously attached picture is the "fire path of Qi circulation" (there is also the wind and water paths). Inner practice (Nei Gong) is what these orbit practices are about and seek to fill up the body's Qi channels/vessels. The first phase is usually stated as doing the microcosmic orbit which builds up Qi in the lower dan tian and circulate it in the two main vessels(governing and conception). After the vessels are opened, the next step is to open the twelve channels for Qi flow in the limbs. This is the Macro cosmic orbit. As opposed to just circulating your internal Qi, you draw Qi from the environment (either through the feet or crown). There are ways to encourage the opening of the various channels and even test them but that is another issue. Two links: http://www.1paradigm.org/qigong.html http://www.paradigm-pubs.com/sites/www.paradigm-pubs.com/files/active/0/EssMovTaiChi_E.pdf

This is just a physical perspective and neglects their role on the more spiritual-energetic level where they want to interact and harmony within and without. As was mentioned: The upper radical is 音 - yin: sound, noise, news. So the mind intent is expressed in Hanzi by showing it to be a communication from or expression of the Daoist concept of heart/mind. These (sound, noise, news) are everyday items which are 'transported' via some means. In TCM, where is the "Yi" (意) stored? In the Spleen. And the spleen is responsible for the transformation and transportation of thoughts, ideas, etc... so the top radical makes sense even when understood in TCM. But the "Yi" does not act alone; it interacts with the other agents (there are five agents, each to a yin organ). The heart stores the Shen (神) which connects heaven and earth (it is classically a very mysterious looking Yin Yang symbol). When Yi and Shen interact, those items are transported into action. When Yi is conserved, it is said "Zhi" (志) willpower increases; Note the similarity to "Yi" with a heart at the bottom. In fact, the two (意志) can be used as a compound to mean purpose, desire, intention, mind, idea, ambition, will. Where is "Zhi" stored? In the kidneys which is the abode of wisdom. So "Zhi" is the foundation of wisdom and joins to "Yi" for meanings mentioned. Yi is centrally to the other four agents and thus interconnects them as well as connects (or seeks a return to) to Divine/Universal Yi. I left off two of the agents so far: Liver-Hun and Lungs-Po. Hun (魂) and Po (魄) would take too much time to explain so I'll leave that as a lookup...

I thought it would be interesting to contrast three scholarly translators with three taoist masters: CHAPTER 57 Flowing Hands When ruling a nation, use as little force as necessary and leave people to follow their own path. In this way you become the ruler of the Universe by not striving. How do I know this? Because the more laws and restrictions, the poorer the poor become and wealthier the rich get. Men take to sharpening their swords. People become cunning and ingenious and more trouble is seen in the land. The more rules and regulations made will only cause robbers and thieves to appear. And people will feel bitterness, and rebellion in their hearts. Therefore the Sage goes about doing nothing and people are left free. He enjoys peace and tranquillity and people become simple and honest. He returns to the fullness of the Dao, and so people become full and contented. He is unattached and open and so people return to a good and simple life. Hua-Ching Ni When serving the public, use upright means. When commanding troops in war, employ the principle of surprise. To win the world, do nothing to interfere with it. Why? Because the more prohibitions and inhibitions that are imposed on people, the more difficult their lives become. The more destructive weapons a nation or its people possess, the poorer the people of that country become, and the greater is the chaos that occurs in the world. The more clever and crafty people become, the more often strange things happen. The more laws and ordinances there are, the more criminals and dissidents will arise. Therefore, the ancient sages of natural virtue said: "I do nothing, and people's contention dissolves by itself. I enjoy serenity, and people rectify themselves. I make no effort, and people enrich themselves. I have no desire, and people return to simplicity." Waysun Liao Rule a nation with normal justice and wage war with unusual tactics. Practice non-action to govern the world. How do I know this is so? Because of the following mistakes: The more taboos for people there are, the poorer are the people. When men have more sharpened weapons, there is more chaos in the country. The more men rely on cleverness and ingenuity; the more novelties abound. When rules and regulations grow, there are more thieves and robbers. Therefore the saint says: "I apply the power of non-action and the people are orderly. I am in stillness and the people become honest. I am at peace and the people prosper. I have no desires and the people return to lives of simplicity and goodness."

Except Chapter 1 was written after Chapter 56, since the former was not in the earliest text But i think you maybe knew that and so that makes your point even that much stronger

You gave your explanation as to the speaker who is silent because he might waste his time on others. Is that Laozi's position? He is tired of others who won't listen so he is silent to spite them? He is silent because chinese culture has for thousands of years preferred action over words.

Ok, I see that the file attached, so a few more commments: The MCO is a orbit which travels through and connects the Governing Vessel (back side) and Conception Vessel (front side--think conception !). At the bottom they are naturally connected via the Huiyin (CV-1) but they are NOT connected at the top. So, rule #1 is this: Place the tongue lightly/gently to the upper palate near the back of the front teeth. The best way to practice this is to start doing this 24x7; yes, every day and every breath. Put the tongue there and get used to it. Swallow the saliva. Basic wisdom is to start doing the Buddha breathing also 24x7. I agree. Inhale is stomach out; Exhale is stomach in. Much more to it than this but start with it... This equates to the Buddha Method in first post. But if you do this with the tongue on palate for a month as just 24x7 life, you may already feel something yet you are just breathing. Enough from me. Edit: sorry... meant to add this link: http://lieske.com/channels/5e-gc.htm

It is actually pretty simple once you actually experience it and grasp the basics; but getting the info may be the harder part. There are two methods (well, at least): 1. Buddhist method 2. Daoist method And each has a 1 or 2 breath method... so yes, easy to understand so far on paper but doing is another world. The bottom line is you move the Qi with your mind in conjunction with breathing; visualize it moving along the 'orbit' and be one with it. There is a "pearl" method which takes longer to explain so I'll not go there for now. I will try to upload a picture as a start to this thread. I hope it attaches and then maybe others will also share their experience. In some cases, there is the "100 day burn". I don't think the 100 days is anything magical since some might complete it in 60 days or 120 days depending on their Qi constitution. But some of this really behooves having a teacher or master. I am just sharing some thoughts for now. Edit: I want to give credit for this picture is from: Chi Kung: Health and Martial Arts by Yang Jwing-Ming This is one of his earliest books and smallest but is still one of my favorites. Qi circulation.doc

I think you must be truly joking, yes? That is an IV drip of Confucian thought. At least the Confucian Wang Bi had a reasonable explanation: He said it was simply "Zi Ran" (following the way of nature) that brings this about. Unspoken truth is actually better understood; spoken words can deceive.

Because he is able to rule the realm by with wu wei and be the example of stillness of the carved block of simplicity... but I get ahead of myself; this is explained in the next chapter

Guys. this thread is about Laozi's "De". Maybe Aaron can delete all this to Chapter 51 or another place.

Here is Flowing Hand's translation: CHAPTER 56 Those who are enlightened, sit in silence. Those who think they know something, are forever talking. In silence and peace one can become enlightened. No one can teach someone else how to become enlightened, for it stems from within the heart. Be at one with Heaven and Earth and then you can become enlightened. He who has become enlightened, is unconcerned with friends, enemies, honour or disgrace, with wealth and titles. For he has become at one with the Dao. This is the highest state of man. ----- It's a much more interesting take. And we see "Xuan" (玄) which has gotten some mileage out of the other thread on Laozi's "De". But here is a good place to explain it more since it will clear up why Flowing Hands translates this line as he does: Be at one with Heaven and Earth and then you can become enlightened. 同其塵 Same/Together/Union Its Dust 是謂玄同 Is Called Far-reaching/Mystic/Primal Same/Together/Union The key is the opening where he takes silence as the basis for enlightenment. In silence and peace one becomes ONE with Heaven and Earth. Chapter one shows "Xuan" as where the 'two emerge from the same source'; thus Xuan is a bridge between realms; between "Wu" and "You", or between Heaven and Earth. The early writers also saw Xuan as associated to Heaven; Heshang Gong wrote of "XuanTian" (the silence of heaven). The previous line has "dust" which is code for that which clouds our minds but also is earth. Richard Bertschinger translates this line as: be one with the dust of the world. This is to be one with the state of silence. Liao as: Be at home with the down to earth. This is the state in which you are united with the Tao.

Well, I personally hope you continue to contribute; had you not so far, we never would of known of this Flow Hands work. I have come to very much appreciate his work. Your general thread about him may not have been received so well but that doesn't matter. Your input in this subforum has been very nice to have. Shamanism is not well understood but I think it's an essential perspective.

While I don't agree with self-promoting translations without discussion the topic, I also don't agree with other self-promotions. We could do better with a few deletions here, but in the absence of that, talk to the topic. ChiD. No need to answer to him here. let such games go their path but do not get caught up in them

Consider the topic title. And offer discussion along that lines. Thanks.

IMO, lines 4,8, and 16 are still not correct in english. 4. The environment grows it (?) or Environmental circumstances grow it 8. Because they do not interfere [but are natural] or [but because they are natural] 16. I tend towards parallelism when possible. You start the line "flourishing" but neither the previous nor next line say "producing" or "raising". But the line just reads a bit awkward.