dawei

The problem I see is that your three lines are not parallel in degree of the object, which the other translations seem to keep in mind. Wu as an example: The greatest straightness looks like crookedness. The greatest skill appears clumsy. The greatest eloquence sounds like stammering. Crookedness, clumsy and stammering are degrees away from the greatest. If you say "skillful seems inept" that is not a degree away; it is essentially the opposite. These three lines are not about opposites. So I think you may want to consider more than just a single line; look at the structure and flow and symmetry to other lines to understand what is conveyed.

It has always interested me that this was not in the Guodian version, the oldest manuscript. The first known commentary to the LZ text was Han Fei, a legalist. He commentates in a very humanistic way concerning the chapter without calling it "three treasures" per se. Heshang Gong's early commentary makes a reference to 'dao ren', which may be a nod towards more like a religious order [of Daoist]. In Qigong, there are many 3's but I have not seen it reference this chapter necessarily; neither in Medical Qigong. I tend to view this the same way as what occurred to Yoga. Yoga was a practice which was supposed to be done AFTER many first levels were attained (ie: more spiritual); then the physical practice would make sense since it was connected to the spiritual. Instead, today, you can shortcut to Yoga and bypass years of spiritual practice. I see the same thing as happening to the so-called "Three Treasures": that originally it was a byproduct of the spiritual practices that one would see on the physical level; now people just talk about these like humanitarian ethics. For that reason, I never pay attention to these and stick to the inner cultivation as was mentioned.

by starting your sentence with "actually" it sounded like a contrast to what others were suggesting. Now I understand what you meant: That everyone got there without saying it, but you wanted to say it

That's exactly what I was after. Not sure if you are affirming or saying I don't quite get there.

Looking at the first few lines, it seems the choice between the two items is implied. To me the implied items are the negative attributes, otherwise there is really no reason to talk about them and then later mention their lose and waste; one would otherwise just be preaching to the choir. The final word (親) in line 1 has often bothered in arriving at the right word. Reflecting on the chapter again, the idea of ‘dear’, ‘intimate’, ‘precious’, ‘love’ are not my first idea. If another person was involved or implied then I would see the use of these. But that last word can also relate to the ‘self’ (used or implied throughout), in which case I see this more as a round of questions concerning items how people tend to desire too much and do not seek contentment: Which does one seek, distinction/fame or self? (The implied answer is distinction fame) Which does one value, self or goods? (The implied answer is goods) Which does one worry, gain or loss? (The implied answer is loss [of goods]) [such] Attachments are a great waste (Non-attachment is a gain of self) [And] Storehouses result in liberal losses. (A loss of goods; echoes a waste of time) For this reason: To know what is enough is not to self-depreciate (it brings self-contentment) To know when to stop is not to exhaust (no waste; no loss) This is enough [to produce] a long life.

already posted here: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18984-buildings-and-mountains-appear-in-china-out-of-nowhere/ but nonetheless interesting a second time

It only meant that there was no need to respond. You could stop the tit-for-tat... but as I have said before, you just want the last word but don't seem able to let it go. Even though you posted you would not respond, you did anyways. So you proved my point even when I tried to say we can stop NOW.

Not idea what your talking about MSG. I certainly did not send you any message (I don't play those kinds of games by sending private messages like that. If I did, I would hope you don't play the kind of game of publicly talking about private messages). We are allowed to disagree with another's idea; that's why it's a discussion forum. Let's just discuss the chapters.

"And" , "or" , "rather" ,etc and other words work here. Henrick's is doing as the vast majority do, use "or". Even well known chinese translators like Lin Yutang, Chan, Zhengkun, Ta-Kao, Lau. I like the way "or" reads since it creates more of a contrast and the later lines emphasis contrast as well.

I was not upset with your translation but your attitude and assumptions, like the above. This is the second time you want to call me out directly by name in posting to others. How about keeping your editorializing assumptions in check since you don't really seem to even know your doing this. If you do know, then your trolling for trouble. Let it go. No response needed.

I am not sure what was the unpleasant encounter; I was posting to MH about other texts and uses of the word(s).

Also can think of how in chinese medicine, there is "wind invasion" of the body. Taken further, Qi can somehow interact with something at a distance(or the Qi of that other something); maybe like how the universality of Qi can interact with itself; it has a kind of continuous and unbroken property. Water fits the concept of 無有. Mencius uses it to show the nature of water is to flow downward; 水無有不下 Many ancient writers used the phrase and it can have many meaning. There is no reason to think that Lao Zi must only use it to mean something invisible. And 無間 does not only mean "no space". Again, there are many uses by many writers. 無間 (wu jian): very close / no gap between them / continuously / unbroken / hard to separate / no division / seamless / indistinguishable

more games. have your fun here.

I answer this... by saying you asking the wrong question. "Sounds" are purgation. Hot or Cold !! Don't you get it?? Just Purgation. You need to know what you are purging. I already told you some examples of cooling... and I said to ask your acupuncturist. Do they know the simple teas I said? Just ask them. If they do not even know the teas I said, then run to the hills... these are commonplace in china. Here are the sounds: ORGAN -- SIMPLE -- SEVERE LV -- Shu -- Guo HT -- Haa -- Jiang/Zhang SP -- Wuu -- Gong (stomach=dong) LU -- Shh -- Shang KD -- Chre -- Yu

Sorry... pre-Han writings show 1300 pages of usage; not LZ likes... http://ctext.org/pre-qin-and-han?searchu=%E7%84%A1 YES NO. You mean this Many meanings. Context rules. Tao is not a 'thing'... you have some sort of Transformer movie idea going on, along with some really bad english. "Formless enters non-space"? Are we not talking the movie, "Lost in Space"? Learn some english and then post some more.

That is truly a great dish but hard to find in the US. When in China, this is easy to find and plentiful to eat.

Otis, Great topic and sharing. Sartre corrected Descartes famous word by saying, we are a "thinking thing" (Descartes: "I think, therefore I am"). It is not that thinking makes us exist; thinking means we think! The KISS principle at it's best But drop the thinking issues. Go with the flow.

I think line 3 (Line 2 for Hendricks) often does not make any sense in most translations. The first two lines are a typical explanation of something like the ability of water; soft overcomes hard. The third is an explanation for something like a formless substance which can enter non-space. That makes no sense since if it is formless it does not need to enter anything; and non-space cannot be entered. Hendricks maybe has something which is meaningful but it still seems it misses the point. This is really about wu wei. The idea of innate, natural action, or non-interference or unforced action, as most have said on this site, is not about "not acting" nor "not doing" but the issue is what is the impetus-source for the action. It comes from the Grand Unity or One (via the Great Way). When you connect to Unity, there is no need to distinguish between the 'have' (you) and 'have not' (wu). There is not form (wu you) and no space (wu jian); there is simply penetrating the source. Following this idea, I came up with a thought which is that once you truly 'Wu Wei', then 'Wu' and 'You' are indistinguishable (無有入無間).

You may be leaking all the energy as fast as your building it; are you closing all the orifices? Do you use any visuals or colors to help? As was mentioned, if you cannot feel the energy (whether growing or dense practice) the system or practice may be not right or not being following right. If your confident in that, then maybe not let it become a sticking point. Go to circulating the energy after building it up. You can also do other breathing practices (through the various gates; baihui-crown, lao gong-palm, yong quan-heels, mingmen-back, three dan tians) but open and close with the energy to the dan tian.

As a few have suggested, the sounds are meant to break up stagnation or blockage; My question would be, do you even understand this and how are you ultimately moving that out of the area? An external Qigong practitioner can take it "out" but if your doing it yourself, you have to do more than just 'break it up'. So I think the idea of using sounds alone is not well understood. If you see Chia's book, he couples the inner smile with it; that is the tonifying aspect to the sound purging aspect; sound alone is missing the point. That's how people get his system or any system wrong in practice and hurt themself further. And these sounds he shares are the basic sounds; there are chronic level sounds as well (ie: for chronic stagnation) but he does not share those. Since you think the issue is heat, why are you not asking how to reduce excess heat in these areas? The acupuncturist should easily be able to advise some foods or teas. As an example: Mulberry leaf is good to clear lung and liver heat. Chrysanthemum flower is a very popular tea in china and is a 'cooling tea'. Bitter teas also clear the heat and are good for the heart (realize the heart is called the supreme controller and therefore has an influence on all the body systems); The Lotus root is good for this and is good to mix with the chrysanthemum to balance the taste. In that way, you get double cooling as well.

The poll is slanted and will never get most members to respond. You need choices for non-Taoist seeking and why they consider that label. In the end, you are asking about a label which is man-made.

What if he wants to be an engineer on a whim because his gf told him this is a good way, after studying 2 years to be a doctor? Do you have children? Have you ever worked through 20 years of raising someone else?

This is 相生 from the third line of DDJ2, which is provided in the post as: And this is from DDJ42: I like the use of 'arise' here more than produce or give birth to: I might prefer "[via] Tao ... I tend to stick to Tao as the process and not a thing from which other things come. If One arises via Tao, then One and Tao are not the same, which I hold to... but glad you shared this. Thanks.

Sheng ALWAYS reflected breaking up through the earth, going back to the Oracle bones. You can see that it was the Seal Character where they began to look similar; this was when the characters were standardized in the unified Qin Dynasty. MODERN >>>> SEAL >>>> BRONZE >>>> ORACLE 生 >> >> >> As a radical: http://www.chinese-tools.com/tools/sinograms.html?r=%E5%9C%9F MODERN >>>> SEAL >>>> BRONZE >>>> ORACLE 土 >> >> >> As a radical: http://www.chinese-tools.com/tools/sinograms.html?r=%E5%9C%9F

Tzujuan is Wades-Gile notation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wade-Giles Ziran is Chinese notation called Pinyin: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinyin They are exactly the same meaning just the former is outdated now.