dawei

your the one correcting people's translations and calling your own the "proper translation" over and over again. Where is the open mind, may I ask? Too funny double standard. I guess we are all here for you? Thanks for the games on the high horse. BTW: You don't have to try and translate every single text offered. You should know something about the text instead of changing your thought every day and pronouncing it as final... again and again and again. An open mind means you are open to another's translation instead of forcing your own to everyone's acceptance. You have already shown you are not open to another's; you prefer to always correct another. Don't you get it?

Your trying to explain the thoughts another starts (me) and then change your translation every other day, and now your at "evolved"? You have not defined what the "Great One" is here; but once it evolves it ceases since it has changed to another thing; then how can it be referenced later in the text? This is rhetorical, no need to answer. It's not easy to get the meaning in english but it's easy to go astray. At least "produces" is better since one knows the original (or origin) did not cease.

What if "just life doing the do" is the purpose? I think purpose is maybe the wrong word but I am not completely against what I see as something higher going on. As Marblehead said, one can use various names but I also see it as the process of manifestation. Does that mean I see it as Dao? No. I personally see Dao as part of something whole; it is the process of that Grand Unity.

My glib answer is YES. I think what holds matter together is Qi; it is the universal web in all things which allows everything to communicate with everything else. I think something like the "Law of Emergence" would be better but maybe no more clear. In chinese theory, the 3 Hun (from heaven) and 7 Po (from earth) make up the soul(s). The hun is the spiritual consciousness which connects to the divine energy and makes up the energetic movement of the shen (seated in the heart)/body/mind. The po soul associates to the jing essence and our senses and responds to the energy of the earth. I think anything which emerges has some purpose (or process or path) it will take. Thus, the source of that emerging has endowed that path. That may be "De" (ie: the Dao in you) but I have not thought through it that far.

Give this a look: http://daodejingle.net/

I agree with what you are saying about man... but I don't apply the line to only man. Since it says "all things" I think the interpretation needs to keep that in mind.

I went a few years ago to the one in Orlando. I think the positive side of it is that it reaches many people with little to no Qigong experience; and it offers credits to LMTs and others. My personal opinion is that it's very basic stuff and not intended to get you too far or advanced (at least the first session, although I did the advanced one too). Some of it seems a bit contrived and simply made-up movements but they work nonetheless for feeling the energy. I think it lacks some safeguards I would expect from such a program; no discussion about how to ensure you don't scatter Qi or what it might feel like or what to do. It is almost presented as full proof of any possible problems; just do it. Many techniques can work. I found the 9 breath thing a bit awkward and it's counter intuitive to natural breathing but it has it's own goal. I think part of it was used for doing Tumo breathing too. Like anything, you have to just maybe experience it yourself and then make your own judgements for what works for you. I personally don't use anything that he taught.

The passage is about "all things", not just man. So do trees, rocks, birds, etc need to gain or need to develop to their full potential also? I personally don't think so. So I think the passage is more general to all things rather than trying to find a meaning which fits only for man.

I tend to agree too. After this was raised in the chapter 6 post, I looked into this more. Even found two other ancient texts using 浴神, and in none of the cases is there anything remotely concerning a valley. Even "bath" is clearly wrong and carries no logic. Maybe 'bathe' might be closer but like you can 'bathe' in sunlight, possibly meaning to bathe in the spirit (ie: as in the flow of you breathing when meditating). The Bao Pu Zi has more like 'bathe in the inner gods'. So clearly there is something alchemy or mystical meant, not a valley. So I think Laozi meant the same thing. Another thing nobody mentions, is: Where did the phrase come from? Liezi says this was a saying of the Yellow Emperor. So Laozi is clearly just quoting an older source (the same way that St. Paul in the bible even quoted a poetic phrase). The Yellow Emperor is the paradigm for attaining immortality; so if the phrase originates with him, that gives more support to the alchemy/mystical line of thinking. The problem is, IMO: If you only look at the DDJ to understand the DDJ, you will not really get to understanding all of it's meaning since Dao (and Daoism) is much bigger than the DDJ or Laozi. We have to get beyond translating a word for a word and get to the meaning. I have slowly learned this lesson myself over the years and still fall back into it but I am convinced of this myself. I just wish someone would move all these discussions to chapter 6 since it has nothing to do with chapter 42.

I agree. I also think the phrase to be "one with Dao" may be a much more energy-based spiritual communion than meets the eye. For this reason, from the very beginning, they probably had this communion naturally in terms of breathing [techniques] along. I do think movements came along to serve a specific purpose (health) but it may be that they also just wanted to mimic animals as a kind of ritual too.

My opinion is that Daoism is ever evolving and containing previous parts as it goes along. I see it as going along a path sometime like: Shamanism/Nature > Alchemy/Spiritual > Philosophical/Humanistic > Religious/Spirit But what you will find is that very, very few 'practice' or live by the religious teaching in China; most 'know' it and it seems to be more pragmatically used. But in Taiwan (much smaller and denser) the religious aspect is more important.

Like a bowel movement... ever do the buddha breath during the movement? Such bliss

I didn't want to be the one to say it... ditto. Start over.

Literally this may be translated as "not doing", but its proper meaning is to act without force--to move in accordance with the flow of nature's course which is signified by the word Tao, and is best understood from watching the dynamics of water. -- Alan Watts

You can think of it as a correction if you want. And you can discuss it further at the chapter 6 post if you want.

Look at the Mawangdui versions; there is a different character.

Note: Not the case for the two oldest versions, the Mawangdui; only versions after that.

I like that ! When Lao Zi went through the western game, he meet Yinxi (the gate keeper) and told him to practice the dao for 3 years and come meet him again at Mt. Qingcheng, which the latter did. There is a very historical reason why this mountain was selected; The Yellow Emperor learned the Dao from Ning Fengzhi at this mountain. Unless one knows both stories, they are otherwise never told as connected.

No need to heat them. Chinese often don't eat them raw. They tend to lack juice to make them a plumb taste, so they are dry. But for cooking reasons, they "look" very good in soups and dishes. Very common is Gou Qi Jiu; Alcohol seeped in Gou Qi and spooned out whenever you want some. There are some who seep it for multiple years before taking it. I have had "3 year Gou Qi Jiu" and it's potent. The general rule for making such alcohol mixes are, the stronger the alcohol the better. So nothing less than 50% but 60-70% is recommended.

I don't really agree in the sense that invisible is more like unseen; it does not have to be mystery. Air is invisible yet there is no mystery to it. The word "Wu" does not necessary carry the idea of mystery but more like a state. Later words in the chapter may be trying to convey mystery but I think it's more like "the mystery that it all arose"; we don't really know the process by which it occurred but we know it occurred; so no mystery there (ie: we are here).

I agree that visualization (or imagination + intention) is very important. Belly out on inhale is called Buddhist Breathing; Belly in on inhale is called Daoist Breathing. They both have their applications but the daoist one is sometimes used more for martial or strength applications. Think about weight lifting; you will take in a breath and pull in your stomach naturally in anticipation of exerting yourself. Try both and see which feels more natural in your application. As for condensing, here are two simple ideas to think about. 1. While doing Buddhist breathing, on each inhale visualize a ball of yarn being spun and grown a single additional circle on each breath. So slowly you are building up a bigger and bigger ball of yarn in the dan tian. After some time, then stop the circular movement of the yarn and now condense it as small as a marble. You can think like packing it or can spin it again now with the intention of packing it. 2. You can breath in air/Qi but only breath out the air; keep the Qi in the dan tian.

I agree since your not following what people are saying. But I am not trying to correct your chinese; so your point is not really relevant. I pointed out your choice of english (as other have too) is not necessarily making sense at times. If your going to correct other people's english translation, I simply suggested you start looking at your own more closely since yours is as restrictive as you point out in other's english translation. Let's move on since it's a shame the [TTC Study] has halted and has not started up again.

Please post where the three main translations can be found for the TTC Study: Wu, English/Feng, Hendricks... so some can copy / paste and start new chapters. We have been sidelined enough.