dawei

That may not be completely fair as I thought his intention was to simply translate the HSG notes in light of the DDJ... Rudolf Wagner and Richard John Lynn did the same thing with the Wang Bi commentary... which is even later than the HSG So, should we go back early commentaries like the Xiang'er (religious celestial masters) or even the very first, which was a legalist, Hanfeizi ? If we listen to modern day translations, how far removed are we now There are a few ways in which Laozi has been understand and continues to be understood that can span: - Geo-political-ruler - Legalist - Religious/Spiritual/Shaman - Cultivation - Philosophical - Societal Some of the above overlap and some breakdown further... What I would say is to choose which one is the initial gut feeling for how you view it and find folks that have explained it in that vein.... but then I'd move on to another one to expand one's own understanding.

so far.. words, words, words... thus, anything can be done

Now to try and explain my memory... I think Chry was meant to balance the lotus root... which the latter has many properties which can be looked up. I agree CHry is very yin... but try not to sweeten it

good topic.. and it plays out in a few ways... as ultimately, IMO, the body gets conditioned to a degree... if I were to stop eating proteins from meat and fish, I have problems. But, the Blood Type Diet Book really explained my blood type dependencies in a way that was completely correct. I'm not saying it is correct for everyone... just take your time to read if there is something that makes sense for yourself. Don't just follow the tribe rule.

I think some stuff from Mencius would be useful... I had not heard of the greater self vs lesser self in Mencius... not that I read him much... but interested to hear more. Thanks.

and why I ended my line with, and where does all of that originate My implication was that there is an inner beacon call... of Following Dao.... ergo, the Light in the distance is Dao beckoning and showing us the Way. For me, it is more about instinctual action... call it Wuwei or Ziran... or whatever.

Try Chamomile tea ... I was shown to mix in Lotus Root to balance it... but alone is good at night.

Laozi gets the last laugh on using words to explain life... once we talk of going with the grain or against the grain... we are talking words and explaining our actions, etc. When his main point is action-without-action... less is best... etc. For the record; There is action and there is best or most action taken. What matters is, what is the intention, motivation, and purpose of that action... and where does all of that originate...

This has a fascinating history, among the stories is that every direction adds up to 15... so the most ancient Sudoku called a Magic Square. I recall many years ago some correlation between this and an explanation for the five phases... maybe my memory is wrong but I do recall it really hurt my brain trying to grasp whatever the explanation was...

my wife often mentions this: 男左女右 - nánzuǒnǚyòu Men-Right-Women-Left So, for example... take a man. The left hand lines are destiny and the right hand lines reveal your current life. My own left hand, life line is very precise and cleanly moves downward... my current life hand shows my life line with many interruptions and breaks. The moral of the story is: I've been a bad boy

As a saying goes... "God knows but he is not telling" IT is a kind of chicken and egg thing too... which side (Yin vs Yang) came first... problem is... they were first united and the question is meaningless Liezi tells it in four simple Great steps: 有太易，有太初，有太始，有太素 … There is a great Principle of Change, a great Origin, a great Beginning, a great Primordial Simplicity. Yet! The Han divination book, Gu San Fen, relates: Clear Qi had not yet risen, and impure Qi had not yet sunk. Roaming deities are not yet spirits. The five colors have not yet separated. The innermost (中) is composed of things; it is a dark other-world yet a nature exists. This is called the primal chaos (混沌). Primal chaos is the Great Beginning (太始), the first fetus coming forth. This is numbered as One. The one becomes Tai Ji (太極). Tai Ji is as heaven and earth, father and mother. This One Ji, changed the sky to be brilliant and clear and the earth to be full of impure richness. This is the Great Change (太易); The Great Change transformed Heaven and Earth: The Great Change is numbered Two. Two is two parts, Yin-Yang also. This is the Great Origin (太初) [of life]. This Great Origin is an exchange of Heaven and Earth. The Great Origin is numbered Four. Four fills the Change. Four transforms and completes everything. This is called the Great Materialization (太素). The Great Materialization is numbered Three. Heaven and Earth give birth to male and female; This is called the Three; Three provided by Heaven and Earth. The roaming deities move as spirits. As a result, they fly and walk, hidden in transformation. The lower life forms move, like fish, inbetween Heaven and Earth. This is called the Great Distance Past (太古). And Laozi wants to say: 道生一。 一生二。 二生三。 三生萬物 Tao produces one One produces two Two produce three Three produce myriad things - D. Lin But the book of changes says: "易有太極，是生兩儀，兩儀生四象，四象生八卦，八卦定吉凶 Change possesses a unique limitlessness; this arose as two (yin/yang; heaven/earth); two grew as four images; four images grew as eight parts; eight parts determine life. So... is yang first or yin first... Neither/both... where is Rene... There is an emptiness with potential that arose singularly and then split in two parts so that life could arise... Laozi calls it three. Three is equal to the ten thousand. One can't haphazardly try to pound out creation, what part is Yang vs Yin... They are forever part of One unfolding to two... to three... to four...

We may need a thread which at least attempts to make fitting sense of Confucian ideals and virtues. I'm glad ZYD brought up the other thread as it was good to read through it again. I cannot think of a word (Ren) that I struggled more with and mainly due to my lack of knowing how Confucius would even use it, then to suggest what Laozi meant by saying 'not Ren'... but I like this below point: In some ways, Confucius was like Jesus... "Truly I tell you," he continued, "no prophet is accepted in his hometown." -NIV As MH stated (somewhere), Confucius knew/talked of Dao... Even the Buddhists did... and maybe why the Three Vinegar tasters moment makes a lot of sense (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vinegar_tasters). There is much truth in the fact that Confucianism is very important in the life of chinese and is historically the fabric that has held its people and government together in some ways... although the entrance exams were based on Confucian classics to a large degree, the more modern community part tried to dismantle the leverage that Confucianism had over people... almost like treating it along side Fulan Gong. I might say that at least in terms of Confucianism, the government simply didn't understand the positive aspects. Confucius liked to look back in time... he extolled the Sage-Kings (Yao, Shun, Yu) which the Daoist saw as evidence of the decline of the Way... and he sought to restore the Rites of Zhou as the ideal Way to live... in this sense, Confucius was trying to restore the Way to live. The Sage-kings have an interesting mention as 'Sagely within and Kingly without' ; Governing by not governing, acting by not acting. Sounds very familiar to my daoist inclined ears... The only quote of Confucius I can recall is to respect ghosts but keep them at a distance Seems sensible advice... but just words until one knows the background of why he would even say that.

I agree with this from a general TCM point of view. But usually, excessive heat can be felt above the ears as rising liver energy goes into the gall bladder. If not, if the heat is in the head, one can still find it... hard to explain the areas but one can feel/find them.... While some of us here can remotely feel and clear something, it can easily come back without resolution.

tuse

thanks for that inter-play... I think your mind is running endless. You could drink a bottle of whiskey to sleep through the night but that still won't solve the issue. I think there are a few ways to go about this: 1. Find a job now, in the current situation... just find jobs that jump out to you. 2. Get some more education in stuff that appeals to your desires of working or practical side. It can change later, just you need a stepping stone. tell us this: What is your deep dream, goal, desire, want, passion of stuff... folks may have a job or life suggestion.

That is a very interesting point.. in a word or two, "yes", and then "no". We might only potentially agree on the aforementioned point. For example... have you felt or visit Laozi ? Based on a simple, 'yes' vs 'no'... the difference is profound... In lieu of such things... let's discuss it all

Laozi has been discussed for 2300 years... and likely much more... so I am sure folks here want to continue to discuss what he said and meant... carry on !!!

I'd replace the word "problem" with "life"... In the time of Laozi's writings was the Warring state period... you can imagine Ch. 80 as of utmost importance in meaning then... and thus, as you suggest, even today Was Laozi trying to 'fix' something? I don't think so... as he said: Dao gives them life; De nurtures their growth. He is just pointing back to the inner powers everyone has... We often don't talk enough about De... but whereas Dao is the blueprint explanation of how it works, De is the inner working... JMO.

See here for some ideas on books:

First useful rule of Taoism is... there are no distinctions and thus no need for words... then along came Laozi to explain it in 5,000 words. There is no such thing as a Taoist or non-Taoist society... there just is. Everything beyond that is our imagination gone wildly happy I don't think that was lost on Alan Watts either. Ah... welcome

For two nights, I couldn't sleep past 3am... The second night I got up, took apart the refrigerator ice/water dispensing unit... looked at the dispensing flap I tried to install about 2 years ago without success (since then, no ice dispenses). I saw the problem... and fixed it. Been sleeping ok since. The mind is an underlying issue for many things... it can sometimes be like a hard drive that you cannot erase something... sometimes we have to just work with the data we have stored. I could of bought a new refrigerator too... but that flap only cost $5 and it had gotten the best of me for two years... until 2 nights ago... Re: Purpose in life... I think you just found that sector on the hard drive...

That would be an irony... that man is so conditioned by modern times that he can no longer go back to a mud hut I've wondered this... if Laozi, while he does use duality as a given, he also sometimes appears to have 'picked' a side. I resolve this by looking at what he is advocating, softness, and then NOT seeing its opposite (which would be a dualistic point of view), but simply see the intrinsic attribute as how Dao manifests and infuses things... that whether you are soft or strong, simple or complex, do either in a 'soft' and 'simple' way; in such a way that you do not feel it is strong nor complex... it simply is... and that base state of 'is', is soft and simple. I can hear the counter argument... so be like a child, as Laozi says, but what can a child really do? It is not about being a child but child-like in simplicity. One chapter that jumps out to me is 61: D. Lin The large country is like the lowest river The converging point of the world The receptive female of the world The female always overcomes the male with serenity Using serenity as the lower position Thus if the large country is lower than the small country Then it can take the small country If the small country is lower than the large country Then it can be taken by the large country Thus one uses the lower position to take The other uses the lower position to be taken The large country only wishes to gather and protect people The small country only wishes to join and serve people So that both obtain what they wish The larger one should assume the lower position

I have this book, Chinese Medical Qigong , which gives some history as:

read more here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guan_Yu

Agree.. even if we may not agree in the details, I think it is a good point. The face carries emotion and realization; even how comfortable you are in your skin. There is no need to flesh out connections... just can read their inner self concept... which might include absence of self, etc.