dawei

Can agree with first two points. My 'instead' means, aside from the wildlife ban that doesn't really help on origins, I'm not seeing anything substantive on the virus origins from china. Happy to read a useful link aside from wildlife bans. This back and forth started about origin issues. So, china has pushed the US Army idea and vehemently denied Lab release where both have brought forth no evidence and denying other countries access to investigate the latter. They have tightened any publications as requiring review before release to contain what is shared now. They pushed the bat angle but have been saying that for months. A bat from Yunnan (how far from Wuhan?) comes closest in the virus signature but couldn't transmitted it to man... so an intermediate is required... the pangolins were pushed too... but we're back to neither one is shown to be sold there. This is all old news. I don't see anything new coming out of China. The US embassy had visited the lab in Jan. 2018 and sent back warnings about research on bat coronavirus. An Israeli Intelligence Officer in Jan. 2019 was maybe the first to speculate something about the Wuhan Lab. It certainly seems reasonable to want to investigate the lab to help further establish potential issues there, or eliminate them. Allowing an international team of scientist in would be something new.

Neither the pangolins nor bats are confirmed as sold at the Wuhan wet markets, which are now re-opened... so whatever they are trying to do with wildlife bans doesn't seem to move the needle towards understanding the origin of the virus. Instead, what is spread is that the US Army made the virus and brought it to the 2019 World Military Games in Wuhan.

His early posting seems consist with what he says here. And their interests and confrontation seems different.

I agree. An interesting issue is to look at Taiwan's timelines: Dec: Taiwan sends experts to Wuhan. They find data lacking and decide it is worse than being shared. They start planning actions. Dec 31: The CDC director saw online chats among doctors in china of an outbreak. Li Wengliang (whistleblower arrested and eventually died of the virus) was among those. That night began a campaign to alert health community and implement inspection of flights from Wuhan. Also began development of testing. Dec. 31: Taiwan notifies WHO and Chinese authorities about the online chatter of an outbreak. The WHO refuses to listen. China decides to report to WHO that patients in Wuhan are being treated for a new virus. Jan. 5: Flights from Wuhan are inspected for contagions with folks quarantined as needed. Jan. 12: Testing improves from 24 hours to 4 hours. Jan. 21: First confirmed case, person came from Wuhan flight on Jan. 20. (US announces first case, person came from Wuhan). Jan. 21: WHO reports worldwide cases as 282, only in Asia. In their section on "Country Responses", Taiwan is not mentioned. Jan. 24: Mask exports banned with beginning of rationing within the country. Jan. 24: Flights from China, Hong Kong, Macau require health and travel declaration. Jan. 25: Suspend all tours to China Jan. 30: WHO announces public health emergency of international concern. Reports cases close to 8,000. Feb. 2: Stop opening of schools. Mask and alcohol (cleaning) production increases Feb. 6: Ban all flights from China Feb. 15: First confirmed death from the virus (China first death was Jan. 11 and the person infected dozens of others). Feb. 18: WHO reports more than 75,000 cases. Apr. 23: Taiwan has reported 427 cases and 6 deaths.

Recently, someone posed as her to suggest she was still around. Even with a mask on, it was easy to see it was not her...

See here:

Some good, contributing members have been run off here. PM me if you want some help to find someone.

https://www.academia.edu/18649502/Portrayals_of_Chan_Buddhism_in_the_Literature_of_Internal_Alchemy?auto=download&email_work_card=view-paper Journal of Chinese Religions, 43. 2, 119–160, November 2015 PORTRAYALS OF CHAN BUDDHISM IN THE LITERATURE OF INTERNAL ALCHEMY JOSHUA CAPITANIO University of the West, USA

Sometimes, what is not said is also meaningful. I find it interesting that heaven, Earth and the Sage are all said to be 'impartial' but there was no need to apply that to Dao. I find that avoidance, useful.

Phone pictures are notoriously big. I would move it to a computer and resize it. A software that is simple to use is irfanview. Once open, Image / Resize Resample. Keep aspect ratio. Save as new name and compare sizes.

There are a few limits. Under Account is My Attachments where you can manage your uploads. Confirm you have not used up your allotment. I also recall a size limit ( and a file type) so try to upload something small, 100 k. You can then delete it in My Attachments. @Trunk

I don't see it so much as trying to push creation relative to some of the other chapters that seem to allude more to that. Its like a primer on cosmic duality of Manifest and Mystery. But I tend to translate mystery more as primordial.

Not sure why... In a military sense, and this was Warring times... the back of the army follows the front into battle; the front follows the back in retreat. But all of these examples are two nodes of a spectrum, which is to say they are part of a singular part working in harmony. Like ch. 1, words divide up the meaning but doesn't mean they are really two separate and independent parts.

I'm not that fond of most translations of this section and can understand why some don't even translate 'desire' at all, like Chan but better is Ta-Kao (1904): There is a classic juxtaposition of opposites that ultimately have little distinction other than in name. The next chapter was aptly placed after this to continue that idea. But the first line already sets the stage with 'ke' vs 'fei'; Can vs [Can]not. The coin turns over with 'expression'. Ta-Kao keeps the 'Wu' vs 'You' consistent in the next lines where most do not. But it leads to an understanding of 'these two'. If one translates with the inclusion of the word desire, I think it has to take a back seat to understand the point of the chapter that depending on the state one's heart is in, one can observe the mystery or the manifest.

It is true that eating bat is not common in china but is known in Wuhan. By a process of eliminating all source ideas, a lab has made the most sense; I've been saying this for over two months, but I see you didn't even bite when I mentioned that to you In any case, there are timelines problems surrounding almost everything regarding this virus. Time will tell us more.

Type: Master thesis Title: Transcending Destiny in the Liezi 列子 Author: Lindenmann, Tanja Issue Date: 2019 Keywords: Liezi Destiny Daoism, Xuanxue, Neo-Daoism Philosophy China Abstract: The Liezi is often regarded as the most important Daoist document after the Laozi and the Zhuangzi (both dating from the Warring States period; 475-221 BCE), yet the existing academic literature leaves a large gap on the philosophical significance of the Liezi, mainly because it is widely considered a forgery of the fourth or fifth century. Philosophically, the Liezi applies Daoist principles to human destiny by example of the Daoist sage, who despite his humanness, is said to be invulnerable. This is contrasted with ordinary people, who perceive their life as a series of fortunate and/or unfortunate events that either were happening as a result of their free will or were determined by forces beyond human control. Whereas for ordinary people free will and determinism are two separate entities, sages unify the manifestations of both concepts within themselves, realizing free will and determinism to be the same but two viewpoints on life which arise naturally due to the duality of existence. By examining the interrelationship between destiny and the sage based on its Daoist metaphysics, this study on the Liezi shows how the seemingly paradoxical relation between free will and determinism is reconciled in personal freedom and happiness through Daoist self-cultivation. https://openaccess.leidenuniv.nl/handle/1887/68431 This is a short, interesting work:

moved here from original posted area: Liezi 列子 , was also called 列禦寇 Lie Yukou. TAOIST TEACHINGS FROM THE BOOK OF LIEH TZUTRANSLATED FROM THE CHINESE,WITH INTRODUCTION AND NOTES,BY LIONEL GILES, M.A.1912 A.C. Graham wrote his original work in 1960 and 30 years later had this re-publication preface: THE IDEA OF NATURE IN THE DAOIST CLASSIC OF LIEZI BY YIN-CHING CHEN DISSERTATION Submitted in partial fulfillment of the requirements for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy in East Asian Languages & Cultures in the Graduate College of the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, 2012 https://www.ideals.illinois.edu/bitstream/handle/2142/31983/Chen_Yin-Ching.pdf?sequence=1 I, Robot: Self as Machine in the Liezi Jeffrey L. Richey Additional information from the Library of Chinese Classics book, Liezi, written in 2005:

I read his tone in this thread. At least he seems passionate about the topic and has a position that can be discussed, if one chooses to actually discuss something besides trying to degrade the other, and resting their position on peanut butter. (BTW, I did find that somewhat funny). I'm just saying. How about we discuss the issue or just not bother with someone we seem to not like to have a discussion with. There appears to a recent trend to try and run people out of their own threads. If this site culling and purging is meant to be anything useful, it ought to be to get to a better place of discussion which means we can allow others to have their opinions. [Apologies to OP on derailing]

it's unrealistic to think they will close down any wet markets. They should have some changes effected but they are not going away. The Pentagon has said their intelligence has also looked at these origin issues and while evidence tends to point to nature, it is not settled. And I think that continues to show the reasonableness in continuing to look at the Lab origin. Which does not have to be deliberate in the way you are saying. It can be: 1. Deliberately spread and released 2. Deliberately sold as animal food (this is known to occur... which pulls in unintentional spread) 3. Accidental infection in lab 4. Accidental spread in lab The other day, you were arguing a conspiracy theory that the spread to the rest of the world was not from China... followed by the conspiracy movement that the administration would fire Fauci. Yes, falsehood should be evaluated as otherwise we're getting worse than Fox News here on Bums. If you disagree with his idea, just present your own, but you seem to just want to bully him. This is the new norm here being passed off as 'discussion'. If the topic is so binary, then don't eat peanut butter.

@Trunk

The main thing I've read so far is that Russia, so the criticism goes, is doing the opposite of counting deaths as the US. In the US, if a person gets infected by covid-19 and dies they are attributing it to the virus. There is some loose applications being told online (if a mother dies of pneumonia without being tested but it is found that the son was infected then that should count as the virus. I'm not sure I would agree without the coroner blood testing). But in Russia, the death certificate tends to reflect what you died of (heart attack, pneumonia, etc), even if infected. So it may be that those without any pre-existing conditions who died and were infected are the ones they count as covid-19 deaths.

Fearful of visiting chinatown is on the low end of the spectrum... burning down hospitals on the high end. There has already been rioting and looting in the US. Chinese attacked in NY and on the subway areas. Screaming at them about their eating habits, etc. I've seen non-chinese asians attack chinese. Its all appalling treatment and historical. I'm likely more sensitive as my wife and step-daughter talk about whether they should show their face in some places. BTW: I'm glad you brought up Russia as it remains on my mind to look at more. Thanks.

Everything I wrote is from Wash Post, WSJ, and other sources stating the start (Patient 1) in various countries. This is all public info. I said I researched it myself. Anyone can. We also know that between the outbreak in Wuhan till the US closed flights from china that 450,000 chinese traveled to the US. Our mistake was not closing it from Europe too. As to Russia, I only found they enacted border restrictions very early, earlier than the US on flights. Given how China is thought to report lower than actual, and North Korea still claims not a single death... I don't know that Russia's numbers are reported correctly. But one thing we know, if you don't test there is nothing to report. Taomeow stated this quite a while ago and I agree. I will agree that the Russian figures don't really make sense but again, neither did Africa's for a while... till they started reporting their testing. I am personally more inclined to think it is a number's cover-up than a avoidance to travel to Russia because the latter doesn't make much sense to me... but leaves it at the lack of reported infections don't make sense. As to hate crimes, it is a historical fact that pandemics incite discrimination. Most would be appalled at past actions. If anyone didn't see such outcomes, it is nonetheless well documented. Certainly, everywhere is best served by messaging away from separating mankind. In 1858, a mob burned down a massive quarantine hospital on Staten Island. Locals “were afraid that immigrants were carrying yellow fever, especially Irish immigrants,” Jacobs said. Pandemics can intensify fears of “the other,” and exacerbate racist myths about foreigners being diseased or unclean. With sars, in 2003, you’d see people stopping going to Chinatown” in Manhattan. She noted a similar reaction to covid-19, which has given rise to “these kinds of informal ideas that it’s anything to do with your race rather than where you happen to have travelled from,” she said. “This inflammatory language, or alarmist rhetoric, happens so quickly, and is not based on any facts. Attacking members of the Chinese community over the coronavirus is exactly the same thing as attacking members of the Muslim community over leaving Europe: there is no logical connection. This is a completely illogical act. When the 2014 Ebola epidemic made its way from West Africa to the U.S., the panic—along with misinformation, fear, and discrimination—spread faster than the virus itself.

that's irreverent irrelevant... this is a screw loose topic though

very much so