dawei

Maybe we need to make it more clear... This new area is about more freedom of discussion and more free of censorship. I would ask those who want to censor speech to proclaim that in other forum areas.

They did not hack it to show any shafting... that would assume they thought there was shafting... what evidence do we have they knew there was shafting going on ? I'm seeing it is impossible to talk any of this...

In first reading... he seems to pose that as a guru, he is no mountain. but being a gateway to a mountain again.. for others... as they find it themselves. Like he "steps out of the way".. for "you to find your way".

Nice post Jeff so I'll start on whether there is some summary and/or questions about each chapter. I don't have any big beef with the translations but do recognize they all follow the classical approach and don't really touch on the questions about "The nameless" or "as nameless"... These author's ignore an alternate view that it is not "wu ming" but "wu, ming"... Regardless, one can still arrive at the same conclusion that what summarizes it all is: Tao and this world seem different but in truth they are one and the same The only difference is in what we call them This is what the first to last line is saying. I will point out that Heshang Gong, one of the earliest commentaries on the LZ said the 'two' are "desire and non-desire"... again, if we accept the basic idea that "one and the same" then we don't really need to debate the characters and lines that much. The only item that interests me is what I already raised... whether the idea of a 'mysterious gate' is actually the last lines... most point to chapter 6 instead. But if you view it here, then the mysterious gate is clearly not something within the body... it is just a 'state' or gateway of 'existence' and 'non-existence'.

Here it is http://www.thedaobums.com/forum/501-cauvery/

Ok... I changed the title to be more an open political discussion without having to create a new thread... Here is what I'm mulling... so I finally did some review to get some data points on dates... on the hacking of the DNC and J.P. Summer 2015 - some activity of hacking of DNC likely started Sept 2015 - FBI tells DNC they were hacked March 2016 - J.P had phishing attack By Sept. 2015, there were still 14 republicans running... and by March 2016, it was Trump vs Rubio vs Cruz ... and Hillary and Sanders. I'm not seeing that hacking thought, back in the summer of 2015... we have to help Trump... I think likely they just thought, let's nail Hillary with whatever we can get as she'll be the next president for sure...

Here it is http://www.thedaobums.com/forum/500-hart/

Isn't it Confucius talking? If so, then you mean he quotes Confucius here to agree with him (but does he quote him to disagree too). It is story telling in part. If we take the comment on the mind never dies then we must also take the parallel structure of comments: 1. A single courageous warrior will heroically plunge into a mighty army. 2. If a man who seeks fame can do this out of personal ambition, how much more so should one who takes heaven and earth as his palace 3. and the myriad things as his treasury, 4. his trunk and limbs as a mere lodging, 5. his senses as phenomena; 6. who treats as a whole all that knowledge knows; 7. and whose mind never dies! 8. He would simply pick a day and ascend to the heights. I cannot see asking about any one of these alone without considering the entire basket of hyperbole.

I likely moved it along with many, quickly, based on the titles alone... and while I do agree with you, general has so many topics every day that this can easily disappear to page 2-10 within a week... I think likely off-topic is best as that is where it was.

great question That has been a hallmark of the site and what we sought to ensure in telling the software folks of their bugs, etc... My decision on this very problematic upgrade is that we keep the integrity of the PPD.... although would like to see other permission sets explored, it is not easy to implement. Daeliun has been working with Sean and I don't oversee this alone... So I look to other voices for comment on how to best and most efficiently proceed... but it seems we keep the major permission changes simple...

We're back to testing to V4 and a TDB skinned version this weekend. This is a major permission upgrade which will break the "Owner's Permission". The forum software has intentionally broken this kind of cross-permission sets of Local Moderators and Groups enjoyed by more than 10 years.... in testing, we also showed them another major bug issue too, they agreed that needed to be fixed. So the bad news is... or dare I saw the good news... is that Owner's Permissions via an anarchist group will cease with the upgrade. There is a way to do it but requires they actually fix the issue we passed along and then lots of work by me to effect it. At some point, there will be a downtime to the site and we'll announce that.

I included Star because his translation of the first chapter seems rather interesting.... so my initial thoughts... The opening line is nothing short of brilliancy, as is the entire first chapter whereby the remaining 80 seem but a footnote. Who would imagine a word/charcter repeated three times of six and yet summarize the entire idea of Dao and reality. To me, this chapter reveals the essence of enlightenment, perception, awareness of being and non-being within a cosmological explanation of reality. It introduces many significant ideas of daoism and may be overlooked in one regard: It's use of Xuan (mysterious, primordial), mother, and gate seem neglected due to chapter 6 'mysterious female gate'.... but all three concepts are presented in chapter 1

I was told that my version is his first version and not his most recent... I've updated my post to show both...

These are some common and popular authors and translations that will be used to comment on each chapter. While we are not trying to delve into each character, that can be raised but the purpose is to understand the overall meaning.

Thanks There is supposed to be some testing this weekend to upgrade as we cannot account for some vulnerabilities. I appreciate you telling us this issue.

For me... energy first moves.... and then my head gets warm... and then I go flush... and I realize my heart energy is expanding...

I can appreciate this position... and I sometimes want more classical texts than those after 1200 when stuff was re-oriented as claiming right and wrong methods... on the other hand, I've done enough Medical Qigong study to see that there is a huge body of teaching on what is accumulated, year by year, by the body... it seems accepted without daoist source proofing cuz some of it is just experienced as inner seeing, etc. but there is an issue if there is no experience to back up a comment and no text either.

Just my opinion... please I think the ordeal of testing him is real and conclusive enough as the CIA said: He is psychic: Psychic shit happens He was tested for "clairvoyant" or "telepathic" abilities.... he demonstrated 'remote viewing'. I personally believe all of this. comments: 1. Is this thread about a CIA interrogation of psychic abilities? yes 2. Is this thread meant to make everyone understand that spiritual practices lead to such similar abilities but called siddhis? PLEASE.. there is nowhere yet suggesting it... BUT 3. Is the idea true, #2? Yes... it is... but it has not been stated nor shown here There are members who might have these siddhis or other remote viewing... they won't share them... because the CIA will knock at your door But some might share some of it...

FYI: I think this is considered another 'popular' translation... I'll add that to my original list post. Stephen Mitchell, 1991

I think so too as a free-for-all interpretation, line by line would be very hard to ultimately lead to a single summary... but maybe we can still attempt that... and it may just be in the sense that folks present their own summary at times. Part of the problem as someone mentioned was how we view the text and it can be based on our philosophical vs religious vs practice perspective we read and grasp. I think a challenge but seems worth the process. Maybe I'll sneak it in but don't tell anyone We didn't start yet I'm not sure we'll be comparing versions like Heshang Gong vs Wang Bi that much. We may need to try and accept the Received version of Wang Bi (which I am loath to do on some level as I think it has lots of issues)... but I think we may be looking at the meaning Laozi wants to share more than what character was correct. We will likely adjust as we go. I think that is fine but with lots of voices it may be a little hard to keep organized enough to keep folks engaged and interested... but I'm willing to help. We did this before.... See the topics that start [TTC Study]. I think it will be best to see how this one unfolds and use the previous topics as part of your research... You could then raise issues in those previous ones. I'm not personally interested to drive and control this but I see the organizational challenge to doing this at a slightly higher level than the previous study. I suspect this study is relying less on what character is the exact correct one, although there could be some interjection, it is just not the focus. I'm thinking we do this study as: [DDJ Meaning] Chapter XX... Do we want to really post all 4 translations in the first post? the only options i see would be to use links to a chapter... or maybe we paste them here in another topic of "translations" in case the links don't exist in the future.

I think that is ok... as folks can be looking at others on their own as they want.

Hendricks translates based on the older manuscripts so he is going to fundamentally differ in many chapters... I think we found it was hard to explain that without knowing the chinese and that might side-track this attempt. I'd consider replacing him with Jonathan Star.

They gave another external one: http://zoraweb.com/lao-tzus-taoteching I'll update my post to have it.

There was a request to return this thread to general because "The topic deals with the side effects of spiritual practice and public attitudes to siddhis etc. " But there is nothing in the OP nor any suggestion since the OP in that direction. Instead, I see this devolve towards skepticism on some level. Unless the topic is about spiritual practices and siddhis, I can't see returning the topic [yet]...