dawei

See this thread too: Dr. yang jwing-ming's best book to start ?

I'd rather see newer/other versions... folks can go back to the other study to see those other translations as they want. And I tend away from 'popular' authors. Here would be my five: James Legge, 1891 Ch'u Ta-Kao, 1904 Wing-Tsit Chan, 1963 Hua-Ching Ni. 1979 Lok Sang Ho, 2002 --- I'm guessing these would be considered 'popular' authors: John C. H. Wu, 1961 D. C. Lau Gia-fu Feng & Jane English, 1972, 1989 Stephen Mitchell, 1991 Red Pine (Bill Porter), 1996 ; Second Link: Red Pine Jonathan Star, 2000 EDITS: I have updated or added links:

I think this is an important decision only for organization... if it turns into one long running thread, they later it is rather impossible to know where to go to get a certain chapter comment... one would have to use search. If we break it down to separate chapters it would be a second study but we're doing that with ZZ right now. I'd rather find what we're doing differently this time. Maybe as separate chapters we aim for the overall meaning of each one... might say something about a few characters but I don't see this time around as the focus on characters. So, for example... I think my approach would be to find that one line in the chapter that likely sums up the entire thing and/or create a sentence or two at most that is the overall meaning. Justification might come from certain words or supporting ideas in other chapters.

I think this would be interesting but I also think we would be best to lay an understanding that folks are going to disagree and what is 'right' to one may be a different 'right' to another; it speaks in different ways to different people based on their path, destiny and awareness. If we can agree to disagree and listen to an opposing view, we may learn something... like acceptance of a different view but nonetheless it is 'right' or useful for another. I likely want to submit some of the more difficult ones based on differences in the chinese versions that have also lead to different interpretations... but need to look some up.

I think you raise something that is not really discussed here that much but you raise it without realizing it... that of having an 'open heart' to 'receive qi'... and I take your meaning as having an inner sense and/or intuition. If you consider the idea of the duality of energy as transmission and reception (Yang vs Yin; Male vs Female), I think most can see that those who are more receptive means they have a developed (or realized) reception energy; those that don't are likely more developed on the transmission energy but may not realize it as their reception side don't provide feedback as to the energy loop that we all create all the time. I guess one could say, in more modern terms, that to open the heart to receive qi transmission from others is akin to telling men to get in touch with their female side [energy]... for many, that may actually be difficult as most practices do not really look at these two energy sides as they don't understand those roles.

likely others like myself have missed them... why not start a new thread

The top pic seems to be Ra (egyptian) ... and the video to be Surya (Hindu)... Both feel very high, male energy levels. I've explored the former but never the latter... thanks for something to look into.

This is just my observation.... the OP question is long over due for a focused discussion... but after 60+ replies, I cannot really find anyone giving a direct answer which is really quite odd given this is a discussion forum about practices and cultivation... A few give teasing and interesting points and by large very interesting overall but regard completely different topic ideas. I find several points mentioned that could stand as their own topic. That being said, Seeker can decide if he wants this to just remain all intact as-is... and carry on as I would just continue the discussion as you want to comment...

Done

I tested this and giving the "move" permission to the local moderator of a PPD allows them to move it anywhere on the board they have access to. The one twist is if you move it to a wrong forum/sub-forum (even say, General), you would not be able to move it back as you would not have local moderator permissions in that other area. but I can give "move" in ones PPD and sub-PPD areas. So what I have done is give "move" permissions to any PPD that has sub-forum areas. There are only a few. But those people can move to their sub-forum areas. As their sub-forum areas also now have "move", they can move them out of the sub-forum back to their main or another of their sub-forums. Those with the new permissions so far are: Dwai Brian RV TheWhiteRabbit

We should test if the "move" permissions get extended around the board or not ... but I hope it means that 'mod' (ie: you a mod of your own PPD) can only move to where ever they are a 'mod'...

Done

These two comments provide some insight to talking about the Mysterious Pass: Zhonghe ji 中和集 (Anthology of Central Harmony) Ding’an asked: When the Golden Elixir is achieved, can it be seen? Li Daochun replied: Yes, it can be seen. Ding’an asked: Does it have a form? Li Daochun replied: No, it has no form. Ding’an asked: If it has no form, how can it be seen? Li Daochun replied: “Golden Elixir” is only a name used out of necessity: how can it have a form? When I say, “it can be seen,” it cannot be seen with the eyes. * * * The Mysterious Barrier is the utterly mysterious and utterly essential mechanism. Many present-day students get stuck to the physical body. They say that it is between the eyebrows, or in the wheel of the navel, or in the space between the kidneys, or “before the kidneys and behind the navel,” or in the gallbladder, or in the Cinnabar Field. Sometimes they point to the Gate of Birth (the vagina) as “the place where one is generated,” or to the mouth and the nose as the MysteriousFemale. This is all wrong. If it is only located in the physical body, it is entirely incorrect. However, it cannot be separate from one’s own person and searched outside it. Why does no scripture on the Elixir say where it is found? [because] it is difficult to be expressed by writing or speaking; this is why it is called Mysterious Barrier. Therefore the sages showed it only by the single character zhong 中 (“center”), since only this character elucidates the Mysterious Barrier. This Center it is not the center of “internal and external”; it is not the center of “the four directions and above and below”; and it is not the center that is within. -- Tr. Pregadio, Fabrizio ------------------------------------------ It is not about the physical senses nor the 'center' as most think.

I would not of translated 'bu ren' (不仁) as ruthless nor as most others try (unbenevolent, inhumane, indifferent, etc). I've argued in another thread that it may be better to first leave one word untranslated, then proceed to its meaning.... 'Not Ren' - Ren is an important Confucian term: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ren_(Confucianism) the Confucian virtue denoting the good feeling a virtuous human experiences when being altruistic. Ren is exemplified by a normal adult's protective feelings for children. It is considered the outward expression of Confucian ideals. So, one could say that Heaven, Earth and the Sage are not [following/demonstrating/employing] the Confucian ideal of Ren... An additional angle I now see is that the same passage talks of Straw Dogs and we've talked a lot about that as well... but the fact that that was basically a ceremonial act, it now seems to me that one could understand 'Bu Ren' to mean: Heaven, Earth and the Sage are not acting on Confucian ceremony. Then it goes on to mention treating the 10,000 as a different kind of ceremony... a little bit of a stretch so I'll leave it there.

can you explain this more ?

What likely interests me more is not whether the distinction of sudden vs gradual is in daoism.... but simply was either or both inherent to the practice without need for a specific or singular word. I've long felt that while practices are long-term, there is a suddenness that comes about at some point. A pop or poof... and one can claim the long term created the foundation it may also be that our karmic past contributed too... so I'm not going to argue against a buildup to the moment. But it is my opinion that most all practices are limited by their own limitations and it is when something outside of the practice steps in, then the suddenness is more likely to happen. Meaning: look at ancient ways and most all of those who have something happen has it via a spirit or deity... not their master or practice. In this sense, many practices which lays the foundation and path is actually a dead-end, on its own.

THOUGHTS ON USE OF OFF-TOPIC We recently had a topic started in Off-topic that was Pitted and Locked for review. Part of the problem is the topic doesn't really belong in public view on some level. So that seems to fit what what this topic has been about. The bigger issue to me is that the topic was previously started [by the same member] and Pitted. So it is already in the Pit and any continuation would be expected in that thread, not in a new one that precedent has shown doesn't belong in Off-Topic but the Pit. Staff can only go so far towards considering structure changes to balance concerns and needs. If members don't apply some common sense and judgement about the topics they start, and re-start after previous ones were Pitted, then we really have a bigger problem on our hands than just structure. Someone might argue, if you improve the structure then topics can be appropriately placed. I get that but let's realize that it doesn't do any good to re-start the same topic over and over when it is know to be controversial in the first place. It begins to feel more like spam or propaganda on some level. And I would add that as a discussion forum, there should be some words put to the first post in order to start some discussion, which would assume that the topic is potentially of interest for others to discuss. If there is a pattern of a member wanting to start topics with no words and/or they consistently get no interaction, or negative interaction, we might need to consider whether this is just too disruptive a tactic and not really discussion oriented nor intended.

why not just look here: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42977-my-diaries-of-cultivation/

Good issue to raise... my wife, coming from china, was amazed at the credit system in the US... she now says she gets it... and why her previous life of paying everything quickly with cash makes no sense, to a degree. The flip side it, it is not really that easy for some people to build up credit; it can be like a slow boat to china. But buy, pay off, and buy is the slow but necessary method. A second for folks who can't get a card is to do a security card whereby you pay a balance in advance and have fee. The best way and fastest way to build credit are things that require long term, repetitive payback. Normal consumer buying keeps it going. Here is an odd situation that caused my credit score to actually go down... although it is still in the highest area... I dropped one of my credit cards that I no longer use There is a balance where too many cards are not good and TOO FEW are also not good It turns out, I was better off keeping a card that had a healthy credit line even if I never used it...

I have always heard this but our method of not having such a high loan and paying back fast doesn't seem to give a better deduction than the standard... In FL at least. We do this with our internet... they will offer some lower special but you may never know it without looking at the website once in a while... or if we do get a flyer in the mail, we might change to it. I usually don't have cable stations... but right now, I could add cable and it would be cheaper together than my cost of internet only right now. As was mentioned... we like to pay everything by credit... and this helps my mileage program... I'm amazed that some places won't let you pay by credit... they feel the credit card is charging too high a fee... OMG... just pass it along to the consumer to decide. If I'm willing to pay the fee, why do they care about the fee. For those who do charge a fee, it can be more than you want to pay... so what we do is pay the entire year at one time and so the fee is essentially spread across the year.

you need to put on a spreadsheet and compare. HOA is only if there is a development cost... most houses don't have HOA at all. Don't go for an HOA over $250 unless it is compelling to your desires. You need to play with the numbers to understand it all.

very good point... I grew up watching my father repair his Bronco with "3 on the tree"... In high school, I too, auto maintenance and we rebuilt engines. I later actually replaced 'heads' on a friends Hyundai based on that class... that is another story. I meet several guys who became friends who could tweak racing cars. Later in life, I got really lazy about any self-repair... until I got sick of the cost to pay someone else to do simple stuff... Tires: Just shop around. Find a decent price. Go back for free balance and rotation. What your tire pressure and wear. Know what wear means... tend towards over inflation for better gas mileage; in winters with snow, go under inflation. 1. both outsides wear: Under inflated 2. center wears: Over inflated 3. no symmetrical wear: likely needs alignment. BTW: You don't need Michelin or Goodyear... if you want that, go for it... otherwise, most are 30-50K guarantee. Some now give a 'care fee'. You can bring the tire in due to a problem.... AH MY TIRE IS FLAT AND HOW DO I BRING THAT TO YOU? if you have a spare tire, you can. In my car, I have a tire repair kit to "pull and plug a nail". I bought one kit and then had to use it... and the insertion tool was larger than I expected and quite difficult to insert... great to learn that when I need to use it. I struggled with that tire like I was once again 15 years old wrestling in a tournament. I got it plugged but went to get another, smaller insertion tool... THen the day came when I needed to use that... FYI: You can't insert easily in a flat tire... As I know this, I already put on the spare (yes, check it every six months for air)... and then I drove to WaWa.... free air !!! and I took out the smaller insertion tool and went to the tire needing repair... and to my surprise, the nail was incredibly small !!! SHIT... no insertion tool works well in very small nail holes as the rubber likes to close up but still leak... I wrestled that bitch of a tire at the WaWa for almost 20 minutes... drivers coming into the station might of thought what I was jumping all over all and whether to call 911... I gave up a few times... sweating and tire dirt all over me... and swore I'd do it this time... wrestle and lose... put in more air... try again.... when I was ready to just give up, I attacked the tire with the insertion tool like I need to open a can with a toothpick... and finally it went in.... no more metaphors at this point... job done. If I took it to a shop: $25. I just paid myself $25 to lose 2 lbs at a WaWa Fluids: Check the and keep them where they belong... yourself, inbetween maintenance. 1. Oil - don't believe the BS of 3,000 miles.... that is an industry game... 6-10,000 is ok. 2. Brakes, transmission: check and keep to their level. Rarely need to replace this even one time over the life of a car. 3. radiator: watch your dashboard and maybe every several years replace it. 4. A/C: if it ain't cold, get it checked. 5. Battery: Yes this is a fluid ! Some batteries still have water levels to check ! Know your battery type. Some places will sell and install it for free... understand what your local parts stores can do for free. Most of the above, you can do yourself... if you have never done it, just look for discounts throughout the year... know who offers deals before you need it.

Very true on the auto Mopeds are a great idea but have very limited application... it really depends on the location and whether the traffic patterns really support that in the sense that it is safe. There are some cities where city transportation or mopeds may make sense. Again, I think this is a limited application but an interesting idea. I've found rental rates in certain months to be incredibly low. If you can control your 'trips out of town', you may realize more. I'm a big fan of buying used... my wife is not... it has been challenging to explain this idea but it has finally sunk in both ways: She is now willing to buy used and I'm willing to buy new... the former is based on logic of saving money and the latter based on logic of saving a marriage If buying used, if possible, best case: They have a history and those selling are not repair shop that fixes wreaked cars. #2, mileage. Avg miles is 12,000 a year. You can find some that are much lower and you need to look seriously at those. I'm a bit brand responsive... I don't buy american (sorry Trump)... and Japan is best... (sorry Germany). I think there are great cars all over the world but it is best to find what your comfortable with and search within that range. I'm not sure I have a feeling about hop-to-hop cars... buying and selling. I might try that with leasing instead as there are times when there are great deals. As shown in the house stuff, I'm more into paying it off very quickly... then see how the car treats you. In my lifetime, I've never bought a new car. My current car is a Honda Accord LX, 2000... yes... 17 years old... V6 still with lots of power, leather seats and power windows and seats This would be my final thought on cars... of all the higher expenses like lodging, auto, food, clothes, entertainment, etc... The house is semi-private... you spend a lot of time in there but nobody else, outside of family, is generally around... you can decide how far you need a feeling of comfort vs opulence... as for the car, you're in it more than you think... and others see you in it, including friends and co-workers. If that really matters, then spend a little more on the car stuff. As you can see, I don't care what others think of my car.. .it is so sun burnt on the paint job my wife laughs every day she sees it... Honda had a problem in those production years with green paint.... oh well... did I say, it is a V6 with power

Very true... My daughter does that... It seems a bit risky to me but she has successfully done it for many years. Usually finds a rather large place and rents out all the rooms... and makes money on top of living there free...

I'll expand on this... and it will be longer than I expect as I need to explain several things but I think it will be worth it. What I'll touch on is how to 'make' money by 'saving' on paying early. Also on the benefits of a Home Equity Line of Credit (HELOC) over a mortgage. I'm a lay person talking here with no expertise in advice so what I share is purely my experience. 1. Home over an apartment seems like the greatest duh of all times... but the fact is, many just don't make the attempt and maybe unsure about how credit works, whether they qualify, or just comfortable with where they are. I lived in apartments my whole growing up so that never entered my mind as necessary. Of course one has to navigate the financial qualifications, possible down payments, years of loan, interest, etc... There are various rules of thumb out there: How much you should expect to pay towards a house, how much down payment is best given your goals, etc. I can't offer that stuff so much. Talking to your local bank mortgage officer is a lesson you will likely find insightful. My feeling is: if you're paying more than $800/month on rent, I would bet money that you can actually get a mortgage payment for less... and you'll have an asset in the neighborhood of $160,000. If you're paying $1000/month in rent, you can get a $200,000 house. Most 30 years mortgages are intended to squeeze lots of interest money out of the homeowner and a rough, round number is somewhat close to double the cost of the house as the final, total payment. You can keep that down with a large down payment and paying of earlier. That is what I want to share. We put enough down to get a loan of $100,000 and then began to pay it down as fast as we could. One catch with mortgages is that your payment amount is fixed and will not change as you pay early amounts. There are calculations on how much you can save by paying early and I'd recommend finding that. I prefer ones in excel so I can manipulate calculations if needed: Excel Template Loan Schedule Excel I'm more talking about the decision to pay it completely off as soon as possible; within 5-10 years. The amount of interest payment you'll save. So that $160,000 house will cost over 30 years, ~ $292,000. If you pay an extra $200 each month, the final cost will be $243,000. By paying $72,000 extra over 30 years ($200 each month), you saved almost $50,000 in interest. The big question would be whether after 20 years (only 20 years as you paid it off early with the extra payments), is worth it. To pay it off in 10 years would require double payments: $800+$800. The final cost would be $200,000. I can only hope my numbers are correct, but one can use a spreadsheet and vary payments. Payment - Years - Final Payout: $800 - 30 - $292K $1000 - 20 - $243K $1600 - 10 - $200K After we quickly paid off our house, we decided we needed another method as our develop is tough to buy into. They don't accept traditional mortgages and only cash or VA loans are a surety. We got lucky with our realtor how had someone who could get us an non-conventional loan and it was accepted. This lead me to look at HELOC. HELOC: The pro to this is it works more like a credit card balance and you use it forever you want. If you pay down, then your payment amount reflects what is actually owed, whereas with the mortgage, you have the same payment amount regardless of how you much you pay extra. This means that you are getting lower payments and have money back to you as if someone wrote you a check. What one can do is put that money towards the principal, as extra payment and continue to get lower payments. Or at least you have some liquidity on hand. The only con I can tell so far is that it can take up to 8 weeks to get approval and if you really have a house you wanted during that time, you'll likely not be able to get it as the approval has not completed. We did do this through our local bank, BOA. I first talked to a loan officer who was more like a saleman for HELOC but he completely schooled me over a few hours on how to fully leverage an HELOC for our situation. 1. Our goal was to pay it off as fast as possible. So once again, we looked at healthy down payment to keep the loan smaller. 2. We received various small deductions in the interest for various things... higher checking account status, etc... our first year was set at 1.99%. Thereafter it raises a little but all subject to the fluctuations of the prime rate as well. 3. We allowed auto-payments and the first three are to be without any extra payments to take advanced of all the discounted rates... so we did that. Thereafter, we were to pay down as fast as we wanted. 4. As the third month arrived, I called the customer service to make sure I understand what was previously told me to by another... I read off my plan and she remarked it was rather incredible how well I understand this... I said I work with data and so tend to keep it organized when dealing with numbers... now it was $$ and it suddenly felt important So the way this works is, you have a HELOC of say $100,000 and then a payment of around $370... You have 10 year to use the money as you see fit and 20 years to pay it back... The down payment and low interest alone makes for a shockingly low monthly payment, no ? Once the fourth month kicked in, we kicked in $20,000 and the payments went down to $295... then periodically kept kicking in $10,000 till our balance was $40,000 and payments were down to $135 a month... So from the perspective of the HELOC, we only owned them $40,000 and paid $135/month, yet we still had another $60,000 as a credit line to use on anything, anywhere. The difference from the start = ~$240. We could use that to put against the principal (and lower the payments again), or we at least have some immediate liquidity that a mortgage would not of provided. One big lesson was that having extra money in the bank balance to get a better checking account or small deductions in interest rate were not really producing any real 'savings'. First off, there is almost nothing to be gained from interest on the balance. Instead, as shown above, putting in $20,000 towards the principal lowered our payments by $75 a month... we were never going to get $75 a month in interest nor any benefit from having that in the bank balance. That realization was a game changer...