dawei

I'll expand on this. A frequent flyer program is free... so anyone can really do this. Benefits have changed over the years to be less beneficial to the flyer so just be aware of your accrued mile status. You can lose your miles if you don't fly within a certain time... let's say within a year of the last flight. Some airlines, like United, you can transfer the miles to someone else for a fee; others like Southwest will not charge you to do that (my memory). A mileage credit card: There are at least two options. 1. There are free ones that will allow you to fly on most any airline and accrue miles but the trick is you only get miles on the purchase, not on the flying. Spend $400 and you'll get the corresponding benefit of somewhere between 1:1 (400 miles) to 1:2 (800 miles). 2. Dedicated mileage cards usually only accrue miles when you fly that airline (or a partner) and usually have an annual fee. But you get to double dip: You can get miles for the purchase AND for the actual flying distance. If you get to some higher flyer status in the program, the ratios can change too so you get more miles for the same distance. They in effect make it easier for you to maintain that higher status. As a rough idea of what you can do with those accrued miles: For United, 26,000 miles is a free roundtrip in the US. 70,000 to china. There is usually a small fee but well worth it. Rental & Hotel programs: These are also often free and instead of accruing points to that company program, you can often re-direct the points into miles to a mileage program. My Hertz program re-directs miles to my mileage program. In my case, I decided to use Hotels.com instead of say Marriott program (that I do have). I believe that if I used the Marriott program, I can re-direct it to miles program... but personally I made an exception to use Hotels.com as I won't always stay at a Marriott. So with Hotels.com, I can book through them and stay anywhere and always accrue points towards an eventual free stay. So for me, here is how it works: 1. I use my mileage credit card to purchase the airline ticket, the rental car and the hotel. All of those purchases result in mileage points. If that totals to $1000 then I get 1000 points. Sometimes there are specials where the rental gives me more if I rent from my rental program, which I do 99.9% of the time. 2. Then I fly, say 1500 miles. So I get 1500 mileage points (sometimes more or less depending on certain issues). 3. Then I get reimbursed by my company for all expenses Not everyone can do this but it illustrates how I leveraged this.

It raised an issue that has been raised for years... Off-topic can get so far off-topic that it feels uncomfortable... and yet, the PIT is not exactly the right place either. The staff is continuing to talk about this and considering a kind of three tier off-topic which is basically: 1. WWW - owner's permission based 2. Off-topic - as we know it today but with lighter topics and public view 3. Off-grid - or whatever name... and for more critical comment and discussion on more difficult topics that are not public view. Likely Off-grid will be more like the PIT in that participation is not trying to encourage controversy but is trying to give a place for those topics that we face in everyday life and want to air... but they have to be within the rules, although they would be less moderated; posters have to accept the area for what it is and know when not to step in, and when to step out... This seems to balance the various issues and concerns and preserves the board's use and image.

If you can't see anything, then, I might suggest that you have not plumbed the depths yet... The body's interpretation of working with energy is varied and can include sensing, knowing, realizing, feeling, etc... and colors can be a part of that. I've worked with Reiki masters, yoga healers, magic practitioners, daoist seers, etc... you can bet color is known to all of them... and so much more. I could relate my own experience but it doesn't mean anything to one who has no experience to energy/light as color. I would just say, put the books down and keep going and see where it leads you.

I find that rather 'enlightening'.... would like to hear more if you care to share I read somewhere that Xing and Ming are like, realization of longevity vs Enlightenment ; Daoist vs Buddhist. I've wondered why the daoist brought in the Buddhist concept of enlightenment given there is thousands of years of those who "attained Dao"... why bother to add in enlightenment at all ?

Great topic All my financial wisdom comes from my wife... I've learned more from her than 40 years on my own... in no particular order 1. If you have any skill at stocks... give it a whirl 2. Groceries... buy one get one... focus first on that. If it ain't on sale, find it cheaper. We frequent four different stores and rarely buy more than $30 on any trip. 3. If your store has a gas card bonus, always get it. I think we've done it more than 100 times. 4. Improve your cooking in... and save eating out for something like lunch which is cheaper. 5. Buy a house... then buy a second for renting 6. Always consider where you would go next if fired... be aware of how your skills can earn you more somewhere else. Not as a stress factor concept, but be informed. 7. Stop buying trash bags... use the store plastic bags as your trash... they already fit all your bathroom trashcans anyways. 8. If you work has you travel, get registered to an airline program and try to stick to flying it. Consider a credit card based on that airline. Consider Hotels.com to get free hotel stays for personal use. 9. Consider what you are near and learn to enjoy visiting local, free things... must be many around. 10. Grow something... we only grow incredibly hot peppers... you will love the little you can plant...

this does show why the word 'non-interference' sometimes doesn't work so well When I think of the LZ lines that: Man follows earth; earth follows heaven; heaven follows Dao; Dao follows self-arising naturalness... I think it shows there is a concept of Man's Way, Earth's Way, and Heaven's Way as influenced by Dao/naturalness. Man has the issue of the human condition contributing to his Way. So, to me, the idea that the Way prevails, or not, seems to be in relation to Man's Way and the influences. How well we are 'following earth, following heaven, following Dao, following self-arising naturalness in such a way that the human factor is not the compelling influence.... although the paradox is that it is our choice in a sense. As to the sage preaching or saving his skin... I see it as the sage knows when he can have an impact or contribution on a situation and doesn't waste his time when the rule of the land is to kill any in dissent. Better to save one's head and go fishing or up to the mountains and enjoy the air instead.

'way not prevailing': I think one example would be to look at a King's Way of rulership: Do they rule with non-interference (Way prevailing) or interference (Way not prevailing)? Sagely Accomplishment: 'Accomplishment' is not the best translation to me but more like he is able to serve the people to help establish harmony. Once interference is the norm, there is not much he can do to stop the axe from chopping off any dissenting heads.

Within the 8 Extraordinary Vessels, is the Yin Heel and Yang Heel channels. The eight extraordinary vessels are (奇經八脈; qí jīng bā mài) Conception Vessel (Ren Mai) - 任脈 [rèn mài] Governing Vessel (Du Mai) - 督脈 [dū mài] Penetrating Vessel (Chong Mai) - 衝脈 [chōng mài] Girdle Vessel (Dai Mai) - 帶脈 [dài mài] Yin linking vessel (Yin Wei Mai) - 陰維脈 [yīn wéi mài] Yang linking vessel (Yang Wei Mai) - 陽維脈 [yáng wéi mài] Yin Heel Vessel (Yin Qiao Mai) - 陰蹻脈 [yīn qiāo mài] Yang Heel Vessel (Yang Qiao Mai) - 陽蹻脈 [yáng qiāo mài] I didn't realize that they paired with the Ren and Du channels respectively... making an influence or gateway to the MCO (?) See Here --- My personal experience is that when I did Taiji, we did lots of meridian stretching (ie opening) exercises... and one of the goals was to get an 'open' feeling between the right foot KD1 and left hand PC8.... then same with left foot and right hand... we did several movements to encourage that. I'll add that at the time I was also doing Medical Qigong studies and we did lots of breathing through all the gateways... so that double duty of exercises seemed to eventually open my KD1. After that, I had a different feeling for what it meant to 'breath through the heels', particular given practices where we would breath through the Taiji Pole (or Zhong Mai , central channel mentioned in other threads). I'm can't say if my experience aligns to the heel vessel info mentioned as I was not studying that nor have since, till you mentioned it.

I think there is a valid point here... If the Way is varied and free to flow... then most topics should be open for discussion... whether the actual posts and content can remain within the boundaries of the rules is the issue. I get that the OP was maybe about 'less is best'... but I think we do need to balance it with the range of normal interaction.

So as this seems to be the gist of the topic and you've been pretty vocal in opinion ... no surprise What do you think of a second kind of 'Off-topic' that is basically 'Off-Grid' (out of public view)? I've been against this idea as it feels redundant to the PIT but beginning to see some light about it. The PIT has become a much different place than likely the beginning days... now, mostly unsavory and stuff in really bad taste.... or just too contention splits where tempers arose, etc. The one concern I would have about this is it might spur or encourage political or controversial topics... but if it's out of public view, then should it matter? I think Trunk brings up a really interesting point in how these kinds of threads draw us in when otherwise we might spend more time in the main areas that the forum largely represents. Ergo...would a dark room simply attract more to the dark ?

So rhetorical that transmission is ultimately needed? Ever translate the pic? that would be awesome to share.

this is not really an answer... you could of provided the chinese and then translated and shown how Pregadio is backwards. Or Wells could maybe point it out like this: 1. The tripod is Qian ☰ and is one's Nature (xing). The furnace is Kun ☷ and is one's Existence (ming). 2. Heaven and Earth are Qian and Kun So, is Heaven = Yin or Yang? Earth = Yin or Yang? If one chooses this association (among a million), then it is easy to state: If Heaven is Yin: xing = qian => YIN ming = kun => YANG If Heaven is Yang: xing = qian => YANG ming = kun => YIN --- The problem is that everyone is using associations to get from A to C... The bigger solution to the discrepancy is, to me, based on whether you are following the Northern or Southern Lineages. One can find traditions and lineages treating this issue either way (Xing as Yin or Yang; Ming as Yin or Yang). if one follows Xing = Yin, like WLP, then this likely because they follow the Southern Lineage... more specifically: http://taolainenperinne.blogspot.com/2014/09/early-literary-sources-of-daoist.html While that doesn't explicitly show the association, it is showing that there is a specific teaching... with that teaching, they want to say: Xing = Yin and Ming = Yang. Now, in the past on TDB, the only explanation I remember is because of 'ghosts' as YIN that go to the earth (Xing) and 'spirits' as YANG that goes to heaven (Ming). So as I asked above... Heaven is considered YANG here... Seems to me, it just depends on the Lineage and School... Other Reading: Beizong and Nanzong: The Northern and Southern Lineages of Neidan Although that link doesn't really spell out associations, it shows opposite emphasis on neidan as an FYI.

Ok... here is how I resolve our posts: Zhong Mai vs Chong Mai. the former I learned as the "Taiji Pole"... the latter, one of the 8 extraordinary vessels: http://www.qigong.net.nz/channels Another Link on TDB: Taiji Pole/Chong Mai Note: the thread will show why the Taiji Pole is not the Chong Mai vessel...

Penetrating Vessel (Chong Mai) - 衝脈 [chōng mài]

Several of your lasts posts should really be another topic, worthy of discussion. Let me know if you'd want it split out. My issue with the phrase 'traditional chinese daoism' is when push comes to shove, most are referring to a timeframe of alchemy of 1600-1900 ? And I'm not so sure what is 'traditional' about that... it seems more a tradition as in a specific teaching/branch/lineage...

That's why I won't act unilaterally in this issue... members and staff have their point of view... and I'll also pass it by Sean for his thoughts. There are some implications for what such a change may mean in terms of the perception of what TDB represents, encourages, and wants to attract for discussion topics. I know that in the very beginning, there was a vision of an area fairly wide-open with very few rules... but Sean was the one that changed it to a moderation model... and past Admins further shut down the PIT in some ways.

This has been a really interesting discussion on the nature and use of certain forum areas of TDB as it grows and evolves. In summary: 1. Off-topic was raised as a concern and whether it should go 'dark' (turn off public view) or be removed all together. To me, it still feels like it serves a need and and in life, folks participate in mundane things in life that off-topic tends to cover. 2. Past ideas have been to have a sub-forum of off-topic that is more like, 'off-topic and hands-off moderation'. My counter so far has been, that is the PIT... so seems redundant to me. 3. One suggestion was to move more stuff to Pit and maybe that helps keep off-topic 'cleaner'. I tend to like this idea. I think part of the hesitation is simply it is staff deciding what belongs in off topic or not. That kind of increased oversight to an area might rub some members the wrong way. 4. Another suggestion has been to allow topics to be started in the PIT, as was in the beginning. Although I might be open to that, as it was originally that way... there are several counters to this: Foremost, there is a reason it was turned off... and turning it back on (to start topics) may be a futile exercise in seeing history repeat itself. Also, folks might tend to start controversial topics as if we now encourage that. The current setup seems to have an invisible fence of topics that members understand are ok or not. To open the PIT would be to open Pandora's box of topics. 5. The PIT was suggested as a place of non-moderation. This comes with huge implications... and Lord of the Flies comes to mind... I was at another website for several years, as a mod, and we tried that... it took all of 2 days to shut it down. SO much for non-moderation concepts Not to say that would happen here, but I've seen it tried. 6. The PIT was suggested as having looser rules, like major rule violations only. That's one idea... 7. The PIT was suggested as having a time limit on how long a thread could continue. That's kind of a novel idea and if it could be done via software, then it would be interesting to discuss internally with Admin/tech... but under the current software, it seems it would increase the mod's work to watch the threads and when they got to some limit, which is rather unprecedented for the PIT. How we got to this point was raised with some historical comments... a small group that was largely un-moderated walked these plains at one time... but as the tribes grow and consolidated, Tribal Chiefs were installed... and as it grew to a city-state, a kind of militia was installed. The open plains now appeared to have an invisible boundary; you knew how far to wander or else it was not a safe haven, etc. So, it is rather hard to try and re-create an earlier time when the current environment is quite different. Having said all this, any comments are welcomed and maybe directed at the concerns mentioned above. Added: Inserted a new #6... forgot that one...

I completely agree and suspect many others would too. but to be fair to the OP... he said the below at post #25 but it should be in the opening post to clarify the point of view spoken... it seems many posts would do good to state their teaching/tradition point of view before making what appears to be blanket statements. he said: If the topic is really just about transmission within WLP and YXP... the even a title change would be helpful too... I'll let the topic starter clarify as needed.

"A billion here, a billion there, pretty soon, you're talking real money." -- Dirksen

I think your making an interesting point to discuss but I feel I am contributing towards moving away from the topic of Yangshen...

I'm not sure I'd agree to this, but it would be a legitimate question: Why not just let the PIT have topics started again ? Wouldn't that get the questionable stuff out of off-topic faster ? After all, it was originally that way... I would only comment that, doing so may appear that TDB is encouraging and condoning certain questionable topics to be started. The counter may be But if its not in public view, why care ? The counter may be: It still has to stay within forum rules so we end up still having to monitor it. The counter may be But if its not in public view, why care ? Ok... enough talking to myself... but willing to listen to what folks think.

it is not really about who is right or wrong but what is the perspective that someone is speaking from. If one talks from classics and masters of neidan, they are talking practices and paths of reversal to Dao. What SoH talks about is NOT that path... it is more direct. A few here have this experience. If one doesn't have the experience of a particular path, then they often cannot understand nor grasp that teaching. It doesn't mean our lack of experience in another practice/path makes someone else wrong

you introduced yourself upon arrival as "I'm a Neidan practitioner from Australia"... So you are now, not doing neidan any more and thus not on any path of any practice ? If so, my bad. I took your comment of side-effect to speak to your neidan practices...

I'm surprised at the ubiquitous use of 'banned' when in fact it is a 'suspension' You can look here for the staff action and reasons: http://www.thedaobums.com/topic/42366-sionnach/ It is a bit of a catch-22... even if we send a PM to explain the suspension, you can't get logged in to see the PM. While we could send it to the email on file, most emails here are fake or non-functioning. Likely we should just send it to the email and if one doesn't get it, then at least we did send it.

That is part of what I hoped to get at with this thread. we can lay aside our fan base issues.... and just look at the current events. I don't care who is president... I only care what is happening during the presidency. I don't mean we won't disagree... .but the point is Comment on what is actually happening. maybe we need an example I don't really hope to see... "Trump tweeted GM will be taxed if they don't keep jobs in US... this is crazy, etc". THis is just a tweet... there is no real outcome... comment on actual policy or business actions or issues of action...