Immortal4life

I would still do it. Either way, knowing the theory and practice of TCM would be extremely valuable. If you are still unsatifsfied with your qigong training as you learn TCM or finsh leraning TCM, then you could continue to seek out instruction, and you will probably learn much faster, have a much better understanding of it, and be better able to tell the good systems from the bad systems.

lol

Anyone heard of this style or master?

Bagua is a great art. I already did Schuai Chiao, Xinyi, and Taiji... Bagua seemed to naturally be the next thing to post about

Another Bagua Schaui Chiao throw-

Although, here Blacktaoist Novell Bell, the Bagua fighter is actually teaching the MMA fighters- BLACKTAOIST TEACHES DIPSET RECRUITS (IRON RING BET MMA REALITY SHOW)

lol

Its like I said before, I dont really concern myself with what other people are doing, what the public sees, or what the state of internal martial arts at large or in the general public perception is. Its just a great and interesting topic to me. If we want to make it a contest of what is the ultimate style, internal martial arts masters have been as great as any. Many chinese names have become well known and great. Chen Fa Ke, Lu Song Gao, Yin Fu, Chang Dong Sheng, Yang Lu Chan, Chen Chang Xing, Wan Lai Sheng, Cheng Ting Hua, are only a small amount. I dont even like to comment on other people much. It doesnt really matter to me what people like Blacktaoist, or Frantziz, or anyone is doing. I dont even consider them representatives or lineage holders of the art. What they do only reflects on them and their schools.

I am well aware that the videos I posted are not the best practitioners in the world at their art. They may not even all be proffessionals. The point was that poeple were claiming that internal martial artists dont compete, and that is obviously not the case. So yeah, basically you could say the same thing about anyone of any martial art style. You could say, an amateur boxer compared to a proffessional boxer is like a boy scout to a special forces. Everyone would say, yeah no shit, whats your point? Your opinion is still however, only your opinion and speculation, not necessarily truth. If someone is a good fighter, yet has never encountered a particular style and doesnt know how they fight, then even an amateur in that style could give them problems. Your comparison of boy scouts compared to special forces, is pretty ridiculous and a huge exageration. You are actually just as extreme in your views as the people you are criticizing are. You also do not have any clue what the relationship between the dantien and jointlocks is. Now, if you want to talk about thunderbolts and yellow bamboo, that has nothing to do with what Im talking about at least. Im talking only about martial arts, whether chinese, japanese, american, russian, or whatever. But I wont talk about ki blasters and things like that. Others may be willing to discuss such things, I dont have the time though.

Choosing the path of defending oneself can be correct In the past martial arts were necessary for protection and living In the past, the famous Shaolin temple martial arts in Henan province were very highly developed. Martial arts in general, developed to an extremely high level in Henan province. Martial arts were necessary for protection and survival of the temple, village, or family, and to protect the weak from those that would harm them. Many people consider Shaolin to be one of the greatest, and mother martial arts. Example of Shaolin Long Fist- http://v.youku.com/v_show/id_XMjIzODE1NzYw.html However, not far from Shaolin temple, is another famous area for martial arts.....The Chen Village. One of the greatest, high level, and sophisticated martial arts is the Chen familiy Taijiquan or Tai Chi Chuan. What their greatest strength probably was, was that they took the essense of many martial arts, and completely integrated them into a martial art that was the perfect balance of soft and hard. Developed them to the perfect balance of internal and external, and this eventually became the martial art of Chen family Tai Chi. Some history about Chen family Taijiquan- 1000 battles, 1000 victories Lineage- Lineage Chen Fa Ke- Chen Fa Ke, the greatest Tai Chi grandmaster of the last century-

I have heard of Zhaobao Tai chi, I believe it is another branch off, and comes originally from Chen. Chen is still the mother art as far as I know and understand. I do not wish to discuss myself too much, I will just say that I have a bit of experience training in martial arts and like to think I may know a thing or 2 haha.

Assuming the human race survives very far into the future

Looking back in hindsight, people are always viewed poorly, and mistakes are always what will be remembered. Most people today probably think of anyone who lived in the past as being primitive, ignorant, and all those kinds of things. In the future, the people of today will be looked at no differently. I don't really care or worry about it. I dont consider myself as being part of any "we". I can only worry about how I will be remembered, not other people who lived at the same time as me. If I'm truly lucky history will not remember me at all haha. Everyone wants to be remembered and famous, but look at what fame can do to people. Look at all the famous people who overdose on pain killers, whose families fall apart, get major perosnal problems, become weird and crazy, alcoholics, etc. I don't think people of today will be remembered for their art or literature, I think these things are dying. People in the future won't even value them. As peole get more into computers, texting, messenger, email, etc. things like grammar, english, spelling, etc. are going down the toilet lol.

The Tao that can be copyrighted, is not the true Tao.

But yeah, since Chen style is the mother system all other schools of Tai Chi came from, I dont see how other schools would have skills Chen doesnt, or why they might be better suited to certain people. No one can be the best at every skill in any style of Tai chi. Everyone has strengths and weaknesses. Everyone.

It's not necesarily the art or training that can be bad for a person's body. It is totally possible to train boxing, get a good workout, and not kill yourself. It all depends on the person though. Some poeple are willing to put themselves through more punishment, to become greater fighters. This is really a personal choice. Some internal martial artists compete, in various formats, push hands or grappling tournaments on a lei tai platform, San Shou in a ring, etc. Novell Bell using Xingyi Beng Quan fist in full contact San Shou to get a KO- http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4673281458070965814# Freestyle Push hands competition in China- Tai chi vs. San Da sparring- Also, there is a difference between worrying about what other people are doing or thinking it reflects on you, and competing with other people. I have nothing against testing skills and competing with other clubs, and I have nothing against cross training. Many great martial artists in the past, cross trained in other oarts. Many internal martial artists trained in several arts.

IMO qigong should improve all aspects of a person's being. More energy should mean a stronger perosnality, being able to make a stronger impact on people, more popularity, and more social success. Also, if you are becoming more sensitve to energy, you should be able to intuitively read people better.

Ok, I'm happy now with the replies I simply don't have any recomendations for good bagua books, I dont know if I would be interested in any Bagua books that are in english.

Not every great fighter can make this claim about their martial art. I am sure some effective fighters, while they have defeated many people, also have hurt their own bodies. But I agree that internal martial arts have not maintained the standards and level of fighting skill they once had, and no longer have the reputation they had in the past, while other martial arts have maintained that into modern times. At the end of the day you cant really worry about, or care, what other people or other schools are doing. You can only worry about what you are doing. Other schools do not reflect on you, even if they are the same style, only you and the people you train/compete with reflect upon you.

I wouldnt think anyone would say boxing, muay thai, judo, jiu jitsu, wrestling, sambo, or mma arent great arts and havent produced great fighters. You are presenting examples of some of the best ever in their respective arts, in a highlight reel no less, and then saying you want them to fight people in their art who are perhaps past their fighting prime or not one of the greats of all time in the art......kind of pointless.

awwe... no one liked my Bagua thread.... i thought you guys would be into bagua....

Ok, if you say so

This is indeed an excellent topic. I dont have a whole lot to contribute. I think Chinese medicine has guidelines for lifestyle for different seasons. So that would probably be the best source of information on the subject. Honestly I hate winter, cuz I like to be outside in the fresh air and I like to sweat a lot, honestly I would prefer if there could always be summer.

Videos of Xinyiliuhequan- Henan province, 10 animals, 6 Harmonies True practitioners of this art can kill a person. The strikes can certainly damage a human being to the point of death, the takedowns at a high level will consistently break a persons spine, it does what it's designed to do. It's based on 10 different animals' ways of fighting, Chicken, Eagle, Bear, Dragon, Tiger, Snake, Monkey, Horse, Hawk, and Swallow/Sparrow hawk. The double palmed bear palm strike would penetrate to your heart and internal organs. It is hard to comprehend just how much force is coming down with the double bear palm. It kills people. A xinyiluihequan fighter cannot be moved backwards at all, no matter the size or strength difference. Just kill the opponent, strike from any direction not just forwards. You have 7 attacks for one of the opponents attacks. Interecpt and redirect any attack, and attack from all sort of angles with stepping and footwork so the oppenent didn't even see it coming and didn't know he was going to be hit. Whole body hitting, whole arms, elbows up down and all directions, shoulders, hips, leg attacks, takedowns, backbreaking takedowns, hardcore headbutt and whole head attacks, one legged standing. I like how the head is used in Xinyiluihequan! The whole body becomes one connected unit, so the whole body is a weapon. Even an elbow is not just the mechanical force of the swing of the elbow, but the whole body structure coming forward as a unit. Hardly anyone outside China has this art or these skills, and it is not taught openly to just anyone. A true practitioner of this art is uncorruptable, and doesn't hurt people other than for real self defense. This is attack from all directions, up, down, left, right, high, low, diagonal, behind. 7 attacks when the opponent can do 1 or 2. Grandmaster Yu Hualong- YouTube - Yu Hualong Xinyi liuhe demo, 1990 Pics of Yu Hua Long- More pics of Xinyi grandmasters inclusding Lu Song Gao- The Chicken Claw Sword- Video of some Xinyiluihequan martial arts. The first man on this video who performs the upwards iron bar fist, upwards and downwards elbow as well as arm striking, shoulder striking, kicking, and stomping leg striking is 73 year old Li Zhensi. Next is a woman performing bear palm wih each step a shin kick or stomp to the ankle, and after that demonstrating is a Xinyi street fighter from Beijing doing bear palm, Suicide on the tombstone elbow/punch/headbutt attack combo, cat wash the face and dragon elbow combo, diagonal snake elbows, Snake whips tail, small dragon whips tail, diagonal dragon whips tail in 4 directions, and diagaonal suicide on the tombstone head attacks in 4 direction. Doesn't matter, fight 4 attackers in 4 directions at once. You can see the double bear palm would kill someone as well as elbow strikes and headbutts. The downward double handed chopping takedown called Tiger Pounces, at the 2:23-2:24 mark of the video breaks the opponents spine. This is why xinyiluihequan is known as "the cruelest martial art" Demo of some fighting shapes and some of the 10 animal techniques- same video with cool music added- More animal shapes, higher quality picture- Child practicing xinyi luihe and- Chicken step with sideways body, Every step taken is actually a low kick to the opponents ankle, shin or knee- Rowing Bah- Incredible internal iron body YouTube - Xinyiliuhe Iron Body Training 10 animal shapes- More- Fighting applications- Yu Hua Long fighting drills and 2 Bah form- The original 6 harmony Xinyi system is not known by a large amount of people. Sometimes you can find videos of the animal shapes, but videos with the fighting methods are even less common. The reason is that Xinyi practitioners, especially oldschool ones in the past, often do not or did not want outsiders to know how they fight, or knowing their strategies of attack and application. If outsiders attempt to steal their forms and shapes, whatever, but they dont want them getting the fighting. But here, an older video with George Xu demonstrating Xinyi freefighting methods- Newer videos with George Xu Some basic applications Sledge hammer! Ugh Video Clips of TaiChi, HsingI and PaKua Lol Xinyi toss people Information Some say it was created by the famous Chinese general Yue Fei. The earliest proof begins with the great Spear, Sword, and emtyhanded fighter Ji Longfeng. Xin Yi Liu He Quan wiki- Ji Jike - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Article about Ji Longfeng- Ji Longfeng - The Open Contribution Islamic Encyclopedia, History, People, Places Shaolin Xin Yi Ba Some research indicates it was practiced by the guards and guardians at the Buddhist Shaolin temple. Video examples of what Shaolin Xin Yi Ba could look like- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RKsVJjfSxSw Xinyiba on the rootop or edge of the cliff- Shi Dejian Xinyiba- Documentary with english subtitles on She De Jian and Shaolin Xinyiba- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbVBpTeK53M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxxnfXuesxc Another Shi De Jian Documentary- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QM4TEEGTUTI Shi Dejian Xinyiba applications- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pVT1nhc1_8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8n3PqN9rLI Muslims It was also secretly practiced in Muslim Communities. XinYi LiuHe in Zhoukou, China Muslim man demonstrates many animal shapes- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b03GTXoxX5Y Variations of the old Xinyi "4 Bah" set- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_GZjClgxnaU http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEI-Ovft-n4 Xingyiquan and Xinyi branch offs Out of xinyiquan(heart/intention fighting), developed a new art called xingyiquan(shape and body structure/intention fighting). It based its fighting theory on the 5 elements of Metal, Water, Wood, Fire, and Earth. Most Xingyiquan practitioners only learned 1 or 2 animals from Xinyiquan, so they began to make up their own new animals based on the 1 or 2 they had learned from Xinyi. They took some elements of Xinyi, and combined it with other martial arts. Xingyiquan is generally not as effective or as high level as the older Xinyiquan, however this is not absolute, and that is not to say Xingyiquan hasnt produced some great fighters. Squatting Monkey came to be added to the training Dai style Xinyi- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OzXmYTWO2EE And Xingyiquan more- and

more on Yi Quan- http://neigong.net/2008/05/29/grandmaster-wang-xiang-zhai-1885-1963/