strawdog65

A space-time coordinate. Only good for events needing cooperation. Time and the concept of time is purely man-made. Nature has no use of explaining the passing of NOW. Time as a concept has no use, except to man. Useful to us because we have a need to measure and explain everything, as if quantifying something tells us more about it. Without the concept of time, all things would still flow. Progression would continue. The earth moves slowly, as all things are accomplished with no effort, by nature. peace!

Hendrix for christmas, A star spangled acid trip, Castles in the sand.

Thanks for replying Suninmyeyes! I bet you are very confused at times readings the comments we make. Coming from a communist back round, it must seem very alien. I think a lot of it stems from the way religion is force fed to a lot of us from an early age. So when we make a break from what we've been told all our lives, it can be very bitter. Of course it would help immensely if our society was more open to acknowledging that there are many more paths than christianity. Peace!

My ladle is wood, As I paddle with the stream, Consciously, Awake.

Hi Manitou! If only we could go thru our everyday with the three treasures at the very forefront of our minds. As a filter of our actions and decisions. can you imagine what a difference? To subconsciously hold these values, so that innate action automatically takes shape by these values. Surely the Sage was able to acquire such mastery of his most base desires when met with a world of choices. To be a Sage ... Peace!

Hi Manitou! Thanks for your thoughts! This is what I'm talking about. People treat you like you need to be saved by them! Never once thinking that maybe they should let us save them! It seems a very inconsiderate imposition, to me, that someone would just assume that because I look like them, that I think and believe like them as well. The imposition being, when they automatically talk to you like you believe all they believe. Never once thinking, "oh maybe they don't see things like me, and I should not intrude by pushing my own belief down their throat". The christmas card thing is hilarious! I receive a christmas card with jesus all over it from a co-worker every year. She knows I do not believe as her. I have just come right out and said in front of her that "there is no god and that it is a story we are told as children and we believed it". And still she tries to save my soul from eternal damnation. Why do people assume that their belief is something that is Unilateral? Why do they not see the imposition of their acts ? And where is the religious tolerance of that belief? It is tiring to listen to all the talk and mention of god, and jesus this and jesus that. I always tell people that jesus is easy for me to find, I put him behind the sofa! Thats another subject.... religion and a sense of humor! Anyone have a spare drawing of mohamed? I could use a laugh! Peace!

Wishing you all a very merry, stolen pagan holiday!!!!!

Over and over, Changing places and faces, Repeat pattern, Life.

Yes! Marbles! Time is a man-made concept. It has no basis in reality, other than our own perception. Only man has a need to quantify the unquantifiable. It is only a way of measuring what is perceived by the mind of man as what is the passing of this, Now.

Pass the dust bowl, please. Second helpings fill me up, Repeat past mistakes.

Welcome!

Welcome!

Hello!

A very merry Yule to everyone!

I'll invest in those. Sharecropper tending his fields, Land, never his own.

Hi Manitou! Thanks for your reply. Thank you for citing the three. My present life is about those things. Love is truly the most important thing we can give freely to this world, and we have an almost unlimited supply. Living within what you have and not having desires rule your life, such incredible useful words to live by. Real. Useful. Never proclaiming to know what is best for others, or what you think to be the ultimate truth of any situation. We only know what is our own "personal truth", and thinking we have the answers for someone else is the mark of vanity. Concede to other points of view so that you may better know your self. It is through listening that we see the world with the perspective that is not our own. It is through being open to this new perspective that we master ourselves. I come from a past full of contention and the anger and frustration that accompanied it. Which is why I am sometimes now very perplexed by people calling themselves "Taoist" and immersing themselves in such deep useless shit. I'm talking about the whole argument deal. Discussion with heat but with respect as well is great. Argument with heat and anger is to me a very useless, base, animalistic urge to be resisted. I know what lies beneath that anger,I know what good it is.(little if any) People tend to think(wrongly) that based on writings of a person, that if they write about being peaceful, and loving, and not wanting to argue, that they are some kind of "dove". Why not think the opposite? To embrace peace, and love, and seeing the wasted futility of hateful argument, to mean that this is a person who has already lived a life of contention, and now sees that a change is necessary. Thanks again for your thoughts!

MH, Yes. That is what I am talking about. I am not suggesting anyone judge, I am asking though are the actions of purposefully causing disharmony and damage to others for the sole reason of vanity, the ways of the Taoist Sage? What is there to aspire to if we can act with such contempt and ill will towards everyone and never once own up to our actions which have precipitated the events that are to follow. We create suffering and discontent willfully when we are only concerned with our own base desires to be first. How is this to be reconciled within the framework of our everyday lives? I agree with what others have already said. I am just like you. No one is more right or wrong than the other. But, I also know that my actions have effect. And should I not use my own growing awareness to do what is best to create Harmony within my own life? Why would anyone want to create disharmony for the sake of embracing their own vanity? Thanks again MH!

Twinner, thanks for your thorough reply as well. I am naturally more aligned with what you have said, in regards to my own feelings towards the meanings and principles of TTC. I feel it is wrong to create disharmony for selfish and shortsighted reasons. There would be little or no value of the TTC principles/lessons if I believed that the principles and lessons in the TTC were weightless and carried no meaning. I believe that we can and should apply these principles to our everyday experiences. They are understandable, although are not necessarily clear at times, but through sites such as this we can help each other come to a better understanding by exchanging our views on meanings which may be cloudy without help. But back to the original question. I do not believe that contentious, disagreement with obvious animosity and personal slights are beneficial at this stage in my own life. I do enjoy very vocal, heated discussion, and discussion that evokes a more open minded point of view , especially one that creates a healthy atmosphere of new understanding. This post was never about being apathetic towards life. It was never about just giving in and not taking a stand towards what I or anyone else believes. It was never about anything other than my one central point: We can have peaceful disagreement within a discussion. We can feel the heat and excitement of the opposing view, and still respond with respect and dignity for the opposer holding that view. I do not suggest this to be the way for anyone, but myself. Thanks again Twinner!

Gih, thanks for replying so thoroughly again. I appreciate the time and effort of all who are participating in this thread. I believe it is necessary to try to bring these principles we spend so much time talking about into the "real" world. I do not otherwise see the point of talking about Taoism or spending time reading and studying if it's all just an academic exercise. To me these are real principles, that have real use in the real world. I understand (i think) what you are saying about it taking time to work outwards from the mind to the body. Once we change our minds the actions of the body will inevitably follow. And it is something I am witnessing within my self. Patience for allowing what is to be, within me, is the challenge I am encountering, I guess. Thanks again! Peace!

Hello Everyone! A simple question, a myriad of possibilities! If you could change one thing in the history of mankind what would you change? And why? So deep...I have think about it before I can post! Lets make it interesting! .....

Thanks for the reply GIH. I was wondering how do you apply the principles of Taoism in your everyday life. I was wanting to take this out of the philosophical talk realm and take it to the nitty gritty down to earth realm. How do you apply Taoist principles in your everyday realtime existence? I like all this discussion, and appreciate all the interesting observations being made, but want something a bit more simple to sink my teeth into. Like ways of dealing with difficult people from the Taoist view. Like how to deal with not being satisfied by ones present situation in life. Or, How to maintain an attitude that is productive and gives your own life meaning when you have a shitty job to do. Thoughts? Peace!

Thanks again sweeney! Another great one!

Mh, Thanks for your thorough reply. It is very confusing when I am confronted by a philosophy that I agree with and then see the actions of people who profess to be philosophically aligned with Taoism act in ways that leaves me scratching my actual head. Is this a belief that is about walking the walk or are we all just here to listen to our mute voices appearing on the page in front of us? I am confronted with dealing with my own temptations to telling people where they can go... everyday! But I know that it is(in most cases) not of any use to my benefit and understanding. If it were then I could just go back to being an asshole to everyone and resume hating the world for being a steaming pile of shit. And then what use would Taoism be to me? It has changed me. It has made a difference. And it's because I see the intrinsic nature of everything having meaning and value that I have changed. I would feel like a complete fake if I said one thing on this forum, and then went out into the world and did not give a shit about nothing and no one but myself. We all matter, we all have value, and I believe we are all capable of becoming better, kinder, and more compassionate people. Peace!

Hi Samuel! My view of TTC is not quite settled, I do have opinions which I think I make pretty clear. The way of violence and disharmony is racked with ruin. I have experienced from my own past, that discussions are great they encourage learning and open mindedness, while arguments are rarely worth the effort and the damage done is often destructive and unwarranted. I want to be very clear.... I love a great discussion. But I have had more than my fair share of drag out arguments as well. The arguments are not remembered fondly. The mind opening discussions are. People may say what's the difference? Argument/ discussion it's all semantics and used the same in todays language. Do not be mistaken, there is a big difference. An argument is when there is a loss of self control, and anger takes control. A discussion can become heated but anger is not allowed to gain control, ever. How about some Input on how you all are using the principles of Taoism in your everyday lives? And in regards to being a divisive person, is argument, anger the way of the sage? Peace!

Hi GIH! Well said, and a great story to boot. I am interested in how one resolves this within themselves, when they are the source of disharmony by way of their own vanity. The Buddha could be said to be a very vain person based on the idea of never bending to others ideas. In the framework of Taoism, how does this stance relate and influence ones everyday life? Shouldn't we aspire to be more than our base urges in this life? Especially when understanding that there is no societal true "right" and "wrong"? And that everything we experience and think is partial to our limited understanding, so what to do? I am trying to implement the philosophy of Taoism into my everyday life, so it helps to understand that he questions I raised are not meant to be rhetorical, I do sincerely want some input in how to apply the principles in this here and now. Thanks for the reply Gold! Peace!