strawdog65

This is an great thread! I will take issue with "freedom". Since there is no such thing as "true" freedom. We all live in a box of our own making. Boundaries disallow real freedom. There is no such being that is boundless, ergo..no real freedom. The concept of this is the "land of the free" Maybe that was most true about 200 years ago, when a person could roam wherever they were able, but not today, the boundaries are everywhere. We have become compartmentalized lab rats comfortably blind to our prison.

Glad to have you here. You and me, and that fence sitting there watching. Not such a bad Idea.... Reminds me of one of my most favorite poems.... The birds have vanished into the sky, And now the last cloud fades away, We sit together, the Mountain and I, Until only the Mountain remains. - Li Po -

Hi there Sinfest.... What name would you give to what we are talking about? The sounds I make when speaking, do they have anything to do with the concept within my mind? I don't believe I think in "words", concepts are universal, only communication with words is lacking. Interesting train of thought though..thanks!

Hi Sloppy! I agree with you that competition can be a very good thing, especially when its for motivation and has appreciation for your opposition. It's the cut throat mentality and the lack of regard for anyone but the winner we could do without. Pride in country goes hand in hand with the deeds the country has done.. be them good or bad. There is an amount of blindness that accompanies love of country when one professes that their country can do no wrong, and F.U. if you don't Love it then leave! Wrap that up in a blanket of religious piety, and you have a recipe for world domination and atrocities galore.

Hi NJT! If only the time was now that we could enact this thinking process. To really see the whole of our existence and appreciate it's entirety.

Hi there Manitou! I have missed you very Dearly, and am happy to see you back! We must share some past life experiences or something...you are very in tune with my own mindset on this and many other things. I so happy to see you here. Back to the subject... The Bubba trucks with Bubba's indside them and the bumper stickers saying exactly what you have written, I see them often. They are very infuriating. They are really things of hatred, and I'll tell you why I think that. Many people when President Obama won the election, just could not stand the thought of the good ole' US of A having a (god forbid) B l a c k president! What a scandal! He was going to do all kinds of evil and anti white folks things if he got in there...that's what they said..... Since he did get in there and fair and square to boot, they have been on him since day -100. They had the anti Obama everything printed up and ready to go. Hatred has a way of skewing what an otherwise balanced person may be percepting. This hatred, has united with the right wing God lovers, homo haters, and otherwise KKK without their robes on...to become the Tea(baggers)party. Hatred with a very thin icing on top...nonetheless hatred. Nationalistic pride swells up in these people with a pressure that I worry their heads may explode! America can do NO wrong! If you don't LOVE this country and all the warts that inhabit it..then you aren't wanted and should leave! And here I thought caricatures were made up images of people blown all out of proportion to reality...has our reality become the caricature?

Hi SB! I'm glad you've brought this around to the spiritual aspect. Based on my own opinions of what I have been witnessing the past 20 years or so... Hatred in all it's many flavors is still very much alive and well. Today we can see a very thinly disguised Hatred whenever we see someone claiming to be a devout"anything" and as they bring in those of like mindedness, they totally push aside those of a differing view. It's done so smoothly, it seems as though these people really care,and are steadfast in their religious belief. Gov. Rick Perry is a good example for today's times. When there was a huge prayer meeting being given in Texas last month, and it was more than clear that the separation of church and state was being violated, what did he do? He had the day of prayer. He proclaimed it as America's day of prayer or something like that. What is very scary, to me, is that this man, as messed up as he is...could become president of the United States. Someone who is devides people because he has chosen to proclaim his belief as being the only right belief to have. How's that old saying go? God, country and ? You insert what expletive you want in there... For me what they are saying when I hear this is... F. U. No nation, no group, no person...is every right 100% of the time. And to hide behind a religious belief and say It's Gods will? Gotta' go rinse my mouth out now!

Hey Seth, I checked the timeline. Didn't have time to read it all. Is there an obvious correlation between these military actions and the rich and powerful taking what they want from the poor countries? I think the sense of entitlement is a real pisser to me. What..just because you were born in the USA, and you fly a flag and have bumper sticker decrying anything and everything to blame on President Obama, that makes you a Great American? The absurdity of this attitude is gross and sad. Its a big world and there are people who are making meaningful contributions to it with a whole hell of a lot less then we have here in our rich countries. The devaluing of a person because of their place of birth or circumstances of their upbringing is surely the wrong path, IMO.

Hi HE! I sometimes feel as if the USA is following a path that coddles the yesmen of our society and disregards the dissenters...even though historically, the dissenters create changes that are of the benefit to all. Whatever happened to the independent spirit to follow what you believe to be true, but leave open the window, if you find out the truth is something different? Pride in country, to me, does not include turning a blind eye to whats wrong with it.

Hi there Seth! I'm glad to have your reply. The things you mention are the things I sense going on here in the USA as well. I know it is immensely unpopular to point at the nationalistic pride of a country(any) and then say this is a bad thing, but that is how I feel. It seems as if a lot of the nationalistic garbage today is being fed by the religious right wing believers, and supporting talking heads on channels like Fox news. I constantly hear people saying derogatory things about China because so many products are made there. The fact that this is so, is of our own doing, and this is the thing people can not believe to be true. When a country gives up the ability to manufacture goods because they want to acquire them at the lowest possible price, I would hardly blame the country that is able to meet those needs within the budget that has been set. I feel as though our sense of "Nationalistic pride" is a slippery slope of doing what would be unthinkable otherwise. The sense of nations and borders...it KEEPS people... a p a r t.

I wanted to throw something into the mix here, based on what I have seen time and again said about the nature of man(the animal), is it possible to change this nature? Is it possible to teach sharing and compassion for others all the while eliminating the teaching of greed? I believe this is a major stumbling block to any future society that will try something different then we have now. Open your mind to the possibility. The system by which our world runs, is a created thing. It can be changed and replaced by another way. Thank you to Marblehead, for making me think about this tact.

Well said Marbles! I agree with you on this 100%! I can see your optimistic side peaking out... Just like any goal, what may be out of reach at the moment, may yet come within our grasp at another time. And working towards the Ideal is never a bad thing. Whats presented by the Venus Project,to me, is the hope of a future in which the nature of man (the animal) can be changed by teaching through example, that sharing and cooperation, are much more valuable assets then greed, and thinking purely about oneself. There is no such thing as a Utopia. To me, a true Civilization does what's best for the whole of its people, and by this measure, which is my own... we barely even come close to having a civilization. We are more akin to feudal tribes drawing lines in the sand, making demands which we ourselves would never adhere to, and leading no one by the deceptions we undertake.

Thank you ...you old softy

Hya marbles, I am enjoying this very much thank you. The Resource Based Economy central to an Idea like the Venus Project, includes the elimination of "buying" anything. Money would be unnecessary. No one would "need" to buy anything. All resources would be truly shared. This concept is alien to us because we are taught to value "greed". No one alive today, in any money based society, can understand what this concept really means. It's hard enough for me to wrap my mind around it! Greed is taught. Maybe one day sharing and selflessness will be taught instead.

For anyone interested in the man behind The Venus Project, here is a wikipedia link about Jacque Fresco: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacque_Fresco#Resource-based_economy He's a cantankerous, interesting fellow.

Hello Everyone! Isn't the shallowness of the view that we are whatever country we are born into and what language we speak, and the color of our skin, an obvious shortcoming of a mind that does not fully see the reality of it's existence? Can we not preserve our cultural gifts and still come to an agreement that this is a shared world, and as such we are all part of it, equally? What is the next step in the natural progression of a world society if not a one world government? Can anyone honestly say that they continue to see the present form of government succeeding in the future? I think that we are obligated to change how we perceive this world and the thinking of the people populating it, and realize that we must eventually reconcile our desire for separation with the actuality of us all being connected to each other, and needing each other. If the thought process of identifying with a country, or a belief system could be altered to identifying with our entire world, would we not see people differently? Imagine no countries, imagine one world, with one people that understand and grasp that they are brothers and sisters only separated by the thoughts they believe to be true, which are not. As long as people of all countries, ethnicities, and belief systems focus on what our differences are, we will never know peace. It will take the shift in consciousness that we are a one world community, with billions of individuals making up the whole, and that we are all children of planet earth. When population reaches the point of resources not being able to support the people of the world, that's when there will be change. There are resources available to be shared. The issue with sharing resources is that there is no profit to be made in helping others unless they can pay. So resources, food, oil, technology, sit and are not used unless someone is making a profit. This type of world economy will become unworkable in the near future. A profit based economy is a symptomatic of the lack of regard for life and stewardship we have for our planet. It will lead to more war and ultimately planetary destruction. The way out is for us to change. Technology will be the key to this change, machines will eventually remove man from the work place, it is inevitable. Once machines take over the work place what next? This isn't as far fetched as you may think, the progression has been and will continue to be work that has been done by mankind, will continue to taken up by machines and computers. Man will become obsolete as a physical means of getting things done. This is when it gets interesting. Repurposing mankind: what will we do with all the people? People will need purpose. How about them working for the good and betterment of the world we share? When you eliminate working for profit, you enable people to share their gifts for what they are good at, freely. One world, One people, One future together. Peace!

Hya Marbles, Nice to get into a decent conversation with you...I appreciate your views. The pessimistic side of me totally agrees with you and the nature of the animal called man. But I am torn by my optimistic side which tells me that the good can prevail when the choices become limited to the point where the wrong choice means the end of our race on this planet. Resources are not infinite. Power to control them is doubtfully infinite as well. The rich control the resources through the workings of all the people who work for the rich. What if money meant nothing? There would be no way to leverage people to do your bidding. This is what will be required to effect change. Money will have to become meaningless. Profit is a crime against humanity. In a resource based economy the goal would be to elevate all people to a place of being the have's, spreading the worlds wealth to all people. Educating all people. Letting all people contribute to the whole, with no one being considered "less than" someone else. The question is how do we get there from here? A Question: If food, shelter, education, and a life of contributing to a world society were available to everyone as a birthright, and were not things to be "bought and purchased", why would profit and greed be necessary? When the true necessities of living are available to everyone, the world will know a more peaceful existence. The "rat race" we live inside of everyday is manufactured and created to be this way. Know that this is the truth, also know that it can be changed when enough minds have seen that there is a better way. I hope for that day to become real.

What were we after?... Shiver me timbers says aye, Davy Jones locker.

Hya Marbles, I agree with you about the nature of man and greed. What needs to be understood is the concept of "created scarcity". The wealthy "create the scarcity" of many goods, to keep prices high to continue making profits. The system of greed which our world is based on, is, to me, an unsustainable model of an economy. Change will occur when the world is pushed to the economic and resource breaking point. For any future society concerned with the "true" well being of this planets people, greed and manufactured scarcity will have to end. If there was no profit to be made, then I believe a lot of the greed we see would change into something more beneficial for everyone. The very system that we live within, is the disease that ails everyone. Everyone has value, everyone can contribute in their own way, but the system we are in places more value on some than others, and this disparity is based purely on the aspect of creating wealth. There is a lot of information in regards to a society and system based on creating "scarcity' to create wealth, and therefore greed. And greed is the very root of mankind's inability to share. Greed exists because there is the disparity of the people who have and those people who have not. Many times the people who lack food and material wealth, do so because they are unable to contribute anything that is "profitable". Because of this whole peoples and countries are doomed to starvation and relying on the welfare of other countries. What the Venus Project is really about is creating a "Resource based Economy". This is such an interesting subject to me. When I first found out about it a year or so ago, I was blown away by this concept. It is so different then what we have now, it is so obviously more fair and realistic on a worldwide basis that I can see why the rich would not want it to happen. The resources of the entire planet would go to the betterment of everyone. I can only see this coming to fruition after all else fails, unfortunately. I am realistic....but one day the world will need to address the shrinking of resources and the well being of the human race and the world, and profits be damned.

With the renewed interest in the Zeitgeist movement and the Venus project, I wanted to bump this old thread of mine because of all the info and heated discussion here.

Its getting a little heated in here. Thats ok...but I would like to add something. The Ideals and Ideas represented by the Zeigeist movies, especially the 2nd and 3rd ones, are very honorable and make sense to me. I know that people will not willingly, for the most part, do with less or give up their status to help provide for others in this world. The reality is that something drastic will probably need to occur before what is proposed by The Venus project, becomes a viable alternative to what system of greed we now have. I personally encourage everyone to view the 2nd and last film with an open mind and to consider the possibilities of a new kind of world society. The first film has a lot of great information about the money system, but goes pretty far out with the 9/11 conspiracy theories. It's ok to have high Ideals, it's ok to wish for a different way. But reality must be dealt with in the here and now as well. If the movies and the Zeitgeist movement opens the minds of enough people worldwide, maybe that will catalyze a reaction to begin the process.

Stillness in movement, A flame, flickers in the wind, The sound of laughter.

On a moon-lit trail, Shadows dappled with the night, Footfalls... following.

Without a feeling of attachment to something, why would you care? If you have no feeling of caring, then why would you endeavor to try? If you are unwilling to try then you must not feel anything. Maybe "inspiration" is just really caring about something enough to try and go beyond one's normal limits, and breakthrough to something new.

Exhale all week long, Gale forced winds battered the coast, A pirate's tall tale.