JustARandomPanda

I never paid any attention to Alwayson but after reading his post history I wouldn't be surprised if the Amazon guy was Alwayson (or at least his twin brother). Alwayson really seemed to have his argumentative crosshairs trained on GoldisHeavy, Xabir, Sunya and Seth Ananda for their "false portrayals" and blatant ignorance of "real" Buddhism (or in the case of SA, Kundalini). I remember in one post he said GiH, Xabir and Sunya were a triumvirate of ignorance on Buddhism.

Well the comment about Yogani being a joke was actually in an email to me. From one part of the email: However, I can link you to Mr Feisty Buddhist's Yogani reviews. He seems to have spammed most of Yogani's books with the *same* review - something I would've thought Amazon would stop once it was aware of it. But then again...I've noticed Amazon's oversight process of submitted reviews has really gone downhill in the last 5-6 years. Now just about everything is permissible for posting there. Which is why the NY Times ran a story reporting the rising profits of companies who are paid by people to submit reviews to lots of online retailers under tons of false names - the people get paid per each submitted review. Sometimes people pay to have their competitor's products/books/music/service, etc flooded with zero or 1 star reviews. It was really eye-opening to say the least and really makes me a lot more wary nowadays about any review submitted - whether at Amazon or any other big retailer. One guy sold 1 million of his self-published ebooks after admitting he paid to have 300 paid 5 star reviews submitted to Amazon.

P.S. I read Daniel Ingram's Mastering the Teachings of the Buddha Hardcore years ago but didn't have success (at least not when I tried them) using his instructions. That was also when I had a lot of psychotic episodes that was getting me stuck in mental hospitals. I suppose...looking back...it's probably not a wise idea to be practicing meditation at the same time one is having psychotic breakdowns. Maybe if I get better with shamatha or anapana (sounds like anapana combines shamatha and vipassana) I'll give Ingram's methods a shot again. He certainly has a lot of very hard-nosed, practical advise.

Hmm...well I called it cat naps because of what Tibetan Ice described it as - as in - that's HIS word for this state. He describes my current meditation problem almost to a T and labeled it cat napping. Bringing my attention back to the object (Lower Dantien) even after these sometimes loooooong dreams was disorienting to say the least. And from the few books I've read not a single one EVER mentioned this state as being one that could happen! The few instructions from the books I've read were about 1 or 2 sentences long. "Focus on your breathing. And when your attention wanders bring it back to the breath." Which seems intuitive. Until you come upon the things I've been experiencing. I suppose in a way it's a humbling experience to say the least as it shows just how little "control" I really do have over my thought processes even with something as "no-brainer" as focusing on the breath. Oh I just figured I AM is just a way-station on the way to No-Self and 2-Fold Emptiness. I mean...Xabir definitely sees himself as a Buddhist yet he had a lengthy I AM stage. But you're right now that I think about it. Daniel Ingram, for example, never went through an I AM stage. I guess I just use I AM because at least it has definite markers and I think I experienced it once...very, very briefly one morning as I was waking up from sleep. My thoughts and images were literally just like watching things on a movie screen. There was a Presence inside "watching" all the thoughts and images but it was definitely not a part of them. And it was an incredibly peaceful state. I also had an equally amazing evening one time as I was lying in bed meditating (yeah, yeah...I know...I'm a lazy ass. I should be upright and lots of times I am but it was very late and I was tired). My thoughts were on loving-kindness and bodhicitta and for one incredible moment a blazing light appeared right between my eyes at my forehead as brilliant as a blazing, white star. It was in 3D! That surprised me! This happened just as I fell asleep. But it was vivid enough I remembered it immediately upon waking up. And of course, it's never happened again either. One TTB I'm currently taking lessons from said this was a good sign I'm getting progress and that my efforts are starting to bear fruit. Unfortunately, that incredible morning and incredible evening has never happened again and instead I'm plagued with sinking into these damn dream states. Or else a cacophony of thoughts and images. So I figured I don't know "all that" when it comes to meditation (not by a long shot) and it might be a good idea to read more than just the usual "focus on the breath and return to it when your attention wanders." Cheers to you as well!

I've read this too. Although Vajrahidaya did state it could help me quiet my mind. Interesting. It sounds like your personal experience contradicts that of TI's. And just about EVERYBODY on this board is way more advanced than I am. I haven't even gotten to I AM yet. And most often these days my meditation practice bounces from one extreme to the other. Either my mind has too much activity or I get swept up in weird imaging states. About the only thing I can think of is maybe it's like taking the lid off a pot of boiling water and what I'm getting is all the "crap" that's finally coming to the surface or at least I'm finally noticing it. But that's just a guess. Anyway...I was looking around to see if I can do things to improve my awareness training sessions and so found that Yogani book. Which of course had that feisty, argumentative Buddhist posting his one star review slamming Yogani (and Thusness even moreso - he told me Thusness is renowned among Buddhists as being a "joke"). I have a limited budget and what I do have means getting any books not found at the library can take a long time but the anapasati thread has piqued my curiosity. As has the book Mr. Feisty Buddhist recommended (Center of the Sunlit Sky).

If I said I did then it is likely on my list of sutras to read. Which admittedly is quite long. Sitting on my shelf - on my To Be Read list are The Diamond Sutra and Bramajala Net Sutra. I intend to get every one of the Discourses of the Buddha books - including the one to be released this fall - the Numerical Discourses - as well as likely some from Conza (Perfection of Wisdom sutras). Edit: Ah! Forgot about that! Yes, I have the Explication of Underlying Meaning. I'm in the middle of it and it's Great!!! I did not recognize the name you gave as my copy doesn't call it that. I also have The Summary of the Great Vehicle and Lankavantara. I started Lanka but got distracted. I need to get back to it. Gah... I forgot about those. Damn...my memory these days really sucks. Enough so that people around me notice it too.

I am not familiar with that Sutra. In fact...I've never heard of it until this thread. I've only read a handful of sutras. Some of the Shurangama sutra, all of the Lotus Sutra and Heart Sutra. Also bits of Sutra from In the Buddha's Words - which is an anthology of selected Sutras from the Pali Cannon. *********** My main thing right now is trying to get meditation practice solid (along with Taoist inner alchemy but that's a separate category). Some of the symptoms I experience seem to be similar to what Tibetan Ice insists is cat napping. Except he makes it sound like people are deliberately not being rigorous enough in their meditation and thus falling into a cat nap dream state. That isn't what happens with me. I get swept up in the dream even despite repeated attempts to sustain focus on my lower dantien. If I *could* stop the 'entering the dream sweep' I *would*. It's the fact that I do not seem to have any control over this that ticks me off so much that I've been looking around to see wtf I'm doing wrong with my meditation practice. ****************** Right now I'm reading Alan Wallace's The Attention Revolution in the hopes of seeing where I'm making mistakes in my meditation practice. And I get ticked off at the guys who say "you're trying is what's messing you up". To which my reply is - if you, Mr Don't Try Because You're Already Enlightened - are already so Awakened then quit posting on TTB, and quit giving advice to people to "quit trying".

P.S. The guy at Amazon is quite...um...feisty in his arguments with others on what is or is not correct meditative practice. In fact...I found him due to Tibetan Ice's posts on an AYP book. Oh..and he had some less than kind words for Thusness to boot. Said Thusness makes Yogani look great in comparison. Makes me wonder what Xabir would've said to him.

Yes. I was advised to stay away from reading the founder of the Gelugpa sect's works. Apparently he didn't understand 2 fold emptiness correctly and so taught it wrong. Or so the guy at Amazon seemed to be implying. He did know a boat load about Buddhism judging from his posts though so that's part of what has me wondering if he was correct. But yes, he was referring to the founder of the Dalai Lama's lineage. I was advised to read this book instead of Tsongkhapa's works.

I was wondering if anyone would be interested in reading and discussing Confucius' Analects with me in this thread chapter by chapter similar to the way Lao Tzu and Chang Tzu are in their respective subforums. If there is interest I also might appeal to Sean to create a Confucius subforum as well.

You don't know the half of it! These days there are COMPANIES that aid no-name authors and musicians in getting sales by spiking sites that allow reviews. One guy sold 1 million copies of his self-published ebook on Amazon after he paid a company to spam Amazon with over 300 5 star reviews. It's become such a common marketing tactic that the New York Times ran a story about it.

Thanks Rex. I'll check out the links. Edit: I agree with you there on the non-anthropomorphization bit. That's one reason why I like both Taoism and Buddhism. Well the best book I can recommend for those who are curious about seeing if there are indeed legitimate correspondances between Western practices and Eastern ones (especially Taoist ones) should get the following book post-haste: The Tao and the Tree of Life by Eric S. Yudelove. Unfortunately it's out of print and imo that really sucks because this book is the best book hands down I've ever seen showing the correspondence between actual Qabalistic/Western Hermetic inner alchemy practices and Taoist Inner Alchemy practices. It makes a good primer in it's own right as well of 4 different kinds of inner alchemy / spiritual training traditions. Those being specifically: 1. Taoist (especially as was transmitted by Mantak Chia and to a lesser extent Charles Luk's Taoist Yoga and Wilhelm's Secret of the Golden Flower) 2. Qabalah - Both Western and Jewish (which are not the same according to Yudelove - and since he's a Jew I assume he likely knows a thing or two about what does or does not count as "jewish' mystic teachings within rabbinic circles, etc.) 3. Hermeticism - especially as taught by Franz Bardon. But also of course by the Hermetica itself. 4. Shamanism! This last was a big surprise but it turns out Yudelove is into various spiritual practices from assorted traditional societies. In fact..the book opens by focusing and grounding Taoist, Qabalistic and Hermetic practices within an overarching Shamanic framework. He discusses the Lower, Middle and Upper Worlds and levels of wisdom to be learned in assorted shamanic practices and again how these are different fingers pointing to the same ultimate moon. The book is full of actual practices and doesn't stint on showing where they correspond *and* where they differ. I did appreciate that. Yes! Enochian Vision Magick by Lon Milo DuQuette is where I got most of my impressions from Enochian. I also think reading Heaven and Hell by the 18th century Christian mystic Emanuel Swedenborg would hugely deepen the understanding of Enochian practices. In fact, D.T. Suzuki - the guy basically responsible for bring Buddhism to the West in the 1920s was so impressed by Swedenborg he wrote a book about him! D.T. Suzuki even stated that Westerners should be studying Swedenborg's writings intensely because he was the "Buddha of the North"! Just to throw in something else to further whet your curiosity. The Heavens and Hells and the assigning to groups that take place there that Swedenborg describes are pretty much identical to the descriptions given by people in this book (as reviewed in this TTB thread). Then...when you think that D.T. Suzuki studied Swedenborg's books and called him the Buddha of the North (Suzuki was a Zen Buddhist)...it doesn't take much to see the links beginning to line up in all these diverse traditions around the globe.

Why thank you..Dolphin. (um..don't know how to spell or pronounce your name so I just call you Dolphin. ) I'm still on the fence about posting anything on the theory of the three Hermetic Arts. For some reason I keep imagining after posting it the only response would be crickets chirping... I did want to mention that after all of this storm over the evilness of Enochian I've decided to get John Dee's actual diaries. I don't consider Enochian as interpreted through Crowley and Crowley's enthusiastic fans to be a good way to understand what Dee and Kelly themselves were doing. I do admit I need a lot of educating on the matter more.

I sent Sean a PM requesting he create a Confucian subforum. Hopefully he'll reply soon since he's the only person who has the power to create it.

Thanks Anamtava. I've been part of the "Just Label It" campaign that's being circulated on the web this year. I'm not hopeful that we'll get any action simply because it's an election year. Another problem with GMO crops: Thanks to the heavy spraying of a certain pesticide on GMO crops the U.S.'s bee population has plummeted.

I agree. But have you noticed the distinct lack of Taoist Theurgist Magic practicers on this forum? We only got the Internal Alchemy dudes/dudettes here. This is not the whole of Taoist practices we're seeing. I wonder if such Taoist magick practicers started posting details about their stuff on this forum if Westerners would get the same kind of heebie-jeebies they do of Ceremonial Magick and Enochian? Even Eva Wong in her book on Taoism stated she was deliberately giving incorrect information when she discussed Taoist Theurgic/Invocational Magick because it was way too powerful to be put out amongst people with little or no access to a Taoist temple lineage. Funny you should mention that because I've been really into reading the Stoics lately. You would not believe how many similarities there are between Taoism and Stoicism! I'm pretty much stumped as to why Western profs have glossed over so many references in Plato and his successors of actual meditational practices. Why pick and choose what's 'relevant' that the ancient philosophers wrote? The more I look into it the more convinced I am that modern Philosophy profs are just as clueless about ancient philosophy's real purposes as most tv preachers and imams are of their holy documents today. I just sit and read and wonder, "wth happened? Do those Profs eyes glaze over when they hit this passage?"

LOL! Indeed I shall my friend. I have a weird hunch...Enochian may be Western Hermetic's "left-hand path".

If you disagree you disagree. It just is what it is. Crowley I'm not a big fan of. I've never given him much weight. Personally I've been more into Gurdjieff myself (and Gurdjieff didn't hold a high opinion of Crowley from my understanding). I admit I've read few books on Enochian but I never got the impression from the few I read it was to call up demons! Humanity doesn't need to call up chaos. It's built into the system anyway. We just should be aware of it as much as the "good stuff". It's part of seeing through one's own mind. Why else do Hindus worship and have practices built around Shiva, the Destroyer? Shiva may not be "Enochian" but the principle is similar imo. Are Hindus invoking a Chaos Demon in worshiping Shiva? I suppose to most Taoists (*shrug*) they indeed are. And let's not get started on all the Buddhist's Fierce Dieties. Well again...I'd encourage you to read 50 skanda-demon states. I take it you have not run across any of the demon states in your own meditation practice yet? (FYI to interested TTBs: there's a reason they're called *demon states*). I see why DNB left...and I think it was the right idea. It's why I stopped posting Magick practices in this thread as well and I'm having second thoughts about posting the articles. TTB people are not interested in putting Western Hermetic alchemy into actual practice. If you have a good Taoist practice it isn't really necessary anyway imo. They're all fingers pointing to the same moon for the simple reason (contrary to what some people state) there is no other "place" to end up (no such thing as 2 Ultimate, non-dual Truths, Taos, Ein Sofs, Bramans, etc). But just as some people respond well to Taoism but not to Hinduism, Buddhism or Shamanism so some prefer Western Hermetics to Taoism. It's all good in the woods. Cheers to you Turtle.

Forgot to add: the reason Enochian would be less likely to be creepy is that it's already such a high level kind of Qigong that not many people would be good at it. Their ineptitude would kind of "protect" them in a way. Meaning...it'd only deliver pretty weak, or lamo results - if it did so at all. Bagua...especially if done with a teacher's guidance...there's much higher chance of getting it "right" early on. Which could lead to unleashing "creepy" stuff even prior to attaining genuine Meditational realizations. Does that make sense?

Ah! Now I see. No. I was unclear. I think you and I are likely more in agreement than may at first seem. Ok. Let's see if this helps. Enochian Magick in my opinion is an "expedient means". So is Bagua. Now...there is indeed one advantage Bagua typically has that Enochian does not (and a significant one at that). You are far more likely to have an "experienced hand" aiding and giving guidance when doing Bagua. So if you do happen to have anything terrorizing or scary unleashed due to successful deep Bagua practice you have someone (hopefully) you can turn to for aid. Enochian that's far less so - unless you happen to meet up with someone like DNB who's done the hard part, "been there, done that...don't do THAT(!) yet" parts of Enochian him/herself. I guess my point is that if or when something occurs that terrorizes you (whether from inside or outside) - the ONE thing common to both - whether Enochian or Bagua or any other kind of successful practice is that you can not escape your own terrified mind when or if those buttons get "pressed" as BFK stated. Example: Remember the debate that raged years ago at TTB about whether the Kunlun Lineage was infested with malevolent nagas? The Taoist Sage would not be terrorized even in a room full of galactically-malevolent entities. Not though all the scariest/meanest/nastiest-tempered "nagas" in the "external" world were trying to assault him or her. It simply isn't possible. Such a Sage has seen through his/her own mind. Terror has no hold on such a person anymore. They are the Stillness itself by that point. You can't run from your own terrorized mind. And ultimately - this is what both situations (inner conditions or external ones) devolve to. If they did not you'd be like the Taoist Sage. As the Shurangama Mantra says: Your Vajra-like Resolve would still Remain Unmoved. This is why that part of the Shurangama Sutra has so much value...even for non-Buddhists. Because it is talking about a myriad number of deviant states. And let me tell you...some of them are quite terrifying. Even if you are not a Buddhist I hope people can see that the message it conveys has value. One does not need to be a Buddhist to gain benefit from learning about all the oh-so-subtle traps and deviant states that await if one practices successfully.

Bud..if you think that then I got a book you seriously need to read in-depth.

BTW - I've been debating on posting a series of articles on the three Hermetic disciplines. However, I think if I did go through with it I'd put them in the Contributed Articles section of TTB, not this thread. They won't detail actual practices but I did intend to show that deep wisdom can be found in many cultures, not just China or India. In particular not many people understand why astrology would be considered among the 3 arts. Internal Alchemy and Theurgy are more of a 'no-brainer' but Astrology much less so. Until you get introduced to the foundation for it. Then it's a whole 'nuther ball of wax.

Yes! That's one reason why I posted anyone who wishes to practice the Hermetic disciplines needs to start tracking their ACTUAL virtues, vices and good deeds and listed a way they can do so (just read Ben Franklin's autobiography or Liao Fan for details on how to do it). Plus they need to do some sort of concentration meditation *and* some kind of loving-kindness meditation. Without these as a foundation you don't have any hope of being a Mage, Sage, Buddha or all-around Awakened John/Jane Doe.

Bingo!

My guess is because there isn't much interest in Hermetic practices at TTB and DNB was hoping to find fellow practitioners. Lotsa interest here in magick theory, but its actual practice...there isn't any. In fact...I think I'm the only person at TTB who's signed on to trying out the Magick practices he's detailed in this thread. Damn shame because at one time I thought about asking Sean to create a Hermetic sub-forum (like the Vedanta and Buddhist ones). But now I'm fairly sure it'd be deserted.