JustARandomPanda

Well the above is true however in defense of the Scientific Method alas it is the best we've got at the moment of trying to remove oddball biases in day to day observations and theories. But you've noted some good criticisms of it. In fact, they are not disimilar to some of the criticisms Seth Roberts has made. He has been attacked quite a bit by the Scientific Method-Uber-Alles Thought Police and goes into quite a few posts detailing the hidden downsides of the current Group Think that controls who is or is not being "rigorously scientifically oriented" enough with their research. It's good reading folks! Check Seth Roberts out sometime. He's got lots of good stuff on his blog. Yes. And don't forget about the emerging field of Epigenetics. Looks like some aspects of ol Jean-Baptiste Lamarck's theories of inheritence are having the last laugh. Well I think at least some Vegetarians/Vegans *do* in fact believe Veggie-Only-Eaters resonate at a higher spiritual level and further believe the fruit of that higher resonance is their non-meating-eating-actions, not the reverse. de paradise comes across pretty strong in that belief from what I've gathered in this thread. Hence his depression at the posts made by meat-eaters (including I take it, me) in this thread. I presume he sees us as advocating for being lower spiritual beings and not aspiring to a higher status like his own life exhibits which he believes he's attained. [just a note: I am not one of those people afraid to say some people or some states are higher or lower than others, for some clearly are. I'm just in doubt as to whether Devout Vegetarianism is one of those Higher Evolved States.]

Here's a link to a guy who eats meat but he fasts periodically while eating healthy. Notice the incredibly low bodyfat and he's ripped. And his assertions are backed up by Science. Top 10 Fasting Myths Debunked

This sounds suspiciously like you are on a veggie loaded CRON diet. It's similar to the way Okinawans eat. It may be the CRON that is delivering these results and not necessarily the veggies. Until you self-tested the same amount of calories you have weekly on veggies with several months on one with same cals using animal sourced foods (preferably organic only and local raised to boot) you can not be sure. I'm sorry you are so depressed about this thread. It's just a bunch of peeps trying to make sense in their lives. If I could afford to live somewhere where I could grow my own food perhaps I would be fully organic vegetarian. I'd still eat my own chicken-laid eggs though. I do have real world experience my body does better with eggs. Taking lecithin supplements, B12 and other Life Extension vitamins/minerals doesn't deliver the same results as the real deal. I don't eat modern factory made Soy however. But that's just me.

Honestly... The bit about going on the China Study diet is not without confounding factors. Such people eat less. That in and of itself has so many health benefits it boggles the mind. For example... I can point to 70+ years worth of rigorous research across 25 species (including humans) showing calorie restriction is the Health Food Diet Bar None in delivering superior health. No other diet ever studied in controlled environments and now "out in the wild" by self-experimenters has the kind of health benefits of true calorie restriction. One could go on a Calorie Restriction diet of hormone-fed ground beef, Twinkies and beer and as long as it was calorie restricted you'd see unparallelled health benefits. 1. eating less boosts your body's health parameters 2. eating less reduces use of fake hormones and pesticides 3. eating less reduces use of increasingly rare purified water for agriculture and aquaculture Go here for the diet that 70+ years of research shows everyone should be on: Beyond The 120 Year Diet

I am a meat eater Anamatva. Do I come across as condescending? Well....I'm not Ya Mu but one good place to start is Weston A. Price's book Nutrition and Physical Degeneration. Now perhaps many people here have already read it. And I am always an advocate of hunting to see if Critical Thinkers have spotted errors both of reasoned analysis and of research to see if the case is not as good as presented. No doubt there are some problems with Price's book as it was written decades ago and could probably stand to be updated with more rigorous studies. Unfortunately my wish - that such studies were done world-wide to the gold standard in research (double blind, randomized) and not funded by any industry even remotely with an interest in the results (so as to avoid conflicts of interest) will likely never come to pass. I am however an advocate for self-testing. Perhaps a new era of large samples of people doing self-testing ala Seth Roberts (the author of Shangra La Diet which is worth a read - I personally preferred the hardcover version as he significantly changed the paperback from the hardcover.) will become more popular. While such testing protocols violate the double-blind, randomized protocol they may lead to researchers becoming interested in doing such tests to see if there really is something there.

Killing is what many animals do. Does this mean carnivores are going to have Hell Rebirths?

LOL! The Taobums equivalent of a Trot Line! I like it! :lol:

I LOVE Zen. I think it's my favorite "brand" of Buddhism. Mainly because it's a big antidote to everything I do way too much of...such as the above. Especially over-thinking. I do waaaay too much of that. Always spinning castles in the air instead of actually 'gathering data' to see if my beloved theories of how Life is Actually IS is in fact true. For someone like me I think Tibetan Buddhism might not be a good place to start. Too much baggage for a beginner. For a later stage it might be valuable but for me I like the practice orientation of Zen. I've been very influenced by Zen Masters Nan Haui-Chin and Zen Master Hsuan Hua. Also the 6th Zen Patriarch's Platform Sutra is a wonderful read. I have one translation but I *really* want the translation with Master Hsuan Hua's commentary as well.

I LOVE Zen. I think it's my favorite "brand" of Buddhism. Mainly because it's a big antidote to everything I do way too much of...such as the above. Especially over-thinking. I do waaaay too much of that. Always spinning castles in the air instead of actually 'gathering data' to see if my beloved theories of how Life is actually is in fact true. For someone like me I think Tibetan Buddhism might not be a good place to start. Too much baggage for a beginner. For a later stage it might be valuable but for me I like the practice orientation of Zen. I've been very influenced by Zen Masters Nan Haui-Chin and Zen Master Hsuan Hua.

Ok. Well...I'll see if I can track down both Sutras. The one I seem to be recalling and the one you are referencing. Perhaps these differences might be a source of division between Theravadins and Mahayanins? *shrug* Don't know. I do find it odd that (if indeed it is true the Buddha himself said killing to eat meat sends one to a Hell Rebirth) having others kill for you (and thus *they* accumulate Hell karma) is not exactly a...um...rather Bodhisattva-like thing to do. ****** On another subject: I have run real world tests on my own body specifically when it comes to eggs. Whenever I have at least 2 eggs per week my nails become thick and strong and my hair follicle produces thicker hair. Everytime I cut eggs out of my diet my nails and hair become weak and brittle again. No clue why. And it is *only* eggs that do this. Not lethicin, not the fats or whatever. Taking the components of eggs as vitamin or mineral or fats supplements does not produce the same result (much to my frustration). I'll never be a vegan.

Hi Leon. I moved this Topic to the Off Topic section as: 1. This subject is PERFECT for the Off-Topic section and I have been trying hard to encourage active and lively participation in the Off-Topic section at Taobums. 2. The new XBox doesn't have anything to do with the general theme of "General Discussion". Yes, I know it says General Discussion but the subtitle makes it clear it's mainly for all kinds of Spiritual traditions/lineages/practices, etc discussion. and...like I said...I'm trying hard to boost participation in the Off-Topic section and this post is perfect for it. p.s. I have a sneaky suspicion Microsoft are eliminating the hard drive to a. make it harder to pirate games b. make money off proprietary media which they have more control over c. cut costs - coulda sworn I read somewhere that hard drives are one of the most expensive components making up an Xbox aside from the CPU/Memory, etc.

Which Sutra teaches this specifically? That killing to eat meat sends someone to a Hell Rebirth?!! I used to be an AVID sport fisher and would eat the fish I caught. If this Sutra you reference really exists then I am going to HELL. For a Long Time. Have you read any of the sutra descriptions of Hell Realms? Seriously. I have read a few. They could give the Christians and Muslims a hard run for their money in descriptive horrible places to be reborn into. Seriously, I need to read it. I was under the impression Theravadins (who are NOT - I repeat - NOT Hinayana-ians ) will eat meat. Seriously... I coulda sworn I read somewhere where the Buddha himself criticized the Jains for taking the 'do not eat meat' as a precept to an extreme level - to the point it had actually turned into an obstacle to achieving Enlightenment.* In any case Precepts are meant as guidelines. Not hard and fast lines. Either you break the Precept given a set of circumstances or the Precept will break you. I think that's what Ya Mu was getting at. It is not unlike what I recall the Buddha talking about even though I know Ya Mu isn't all that intrigued with the Buddha or the Buddha's teachings. But the general idea is similar imo. I can't speak to the bit about the Dalai Lama flying into a rage. I find that rather odd. For it would imply that Daniel Ingram has achieved a higher level of Realization than the Dalai Lama and while that very well could be the case I do find it odd that other Lamas would elevate someone to be their leader who so obviously had not passed through to at least the level Ingram has achieved. *Yeah. Yeah. I know. The vast majority of Taobums believe there is no such thing as Enlightenment. I'm just referencing what I thought the Buddha said specifically. Dang I wish I could remember the name of that Sutra where he criticized the Jains for taking the 'no killing to eat' precept too far (I think it was the Jains...).

We owe more karmic debt to many beings than we well know. Take for example the REAL forgotten 99% The hardworking invertebrates of the world who pollinate plants or do other kinds of clean up chores. Here's a society - Xerces - I hope to contribute to someday that talks about the appalling lack of concern for these little Sentient Beings. Make no mistake. We all owe a karmic debt to these little beings and that debt will be paid one way or another.

Hmm.... I did some hunting on the China Study book. Actually it *was* skewed data from what I uncovered. The scientist basically cherry picked his data. I was really intrigued by the book but actual scientists also poured over the research and it's not as "clean" and unbiased as I had originally hoped it would be. de paradise..you are much better off simply sticking to your original reasons for advocating for Vegetarianism. It is not a position I am unsympathetic to as I am trying to move in that direction more myself anyway (although I suspect I will always eat some meat - I'm surrounded by hardcore meat-eaters and lots of times they pay my food bills). Still I would not cite the China Study as solid research. It is not. Find another way to advocate for Vegetarianism if possible. There are many roads to the Tao.

This is not the first time I have heard things like this. It has always baffled me what the heck it is about pork that blocks development of Chi or "resonating with Heaven" as a Taoist might put it. And Drew Hempell goes on and on about how salt blocks the working of the vagus nerve which is involved in trasmuting Chi to higher levels of Shen, etc. I really do find this stuff baffling. Heck...maybe Drew will check out this thread and explain what it is about Pork that so blocks this transmutation process. This really sucks cause I actually like the taste of pork and some populations really depend upon it. Germans for example eat a lot of pork and not nearly as much chicken as Americans do. I do try to eat more vegetables however but not for any particular spiritual benefits. It's mainly just because that's what research shows helps somewhat in avoiding 'poor dietary habit diseases' like diabetes, etc. It's a lot harder giving up grain though than I thought. Grain and grain byproducts are everywhere these days in all kinds of foods you'd never dream were in there. And people who live in the city don't have as many options as those in the suburbs for growing their own acres of veggies. As to the Dalai Lama eating meat. Yes, he does. As I understand it his physicians advised him to do so because when he became full vegetarian his health deteriorated and so upon their advice he started re-incorporating animal products into his diet again. Of course some vegetarian advocates scolded him after that. Paul McCartney being one of them I heard. Anyway...Dalai Lama *also* makes promises to lead the beings (including the ones he eats) to spiritual enlightenment. This is a kind of aid I suspect very, very few meat eaters ever promise to give but it's (admittedly my opinion) sort of the sentiment behind a lot of cultures giving thanks to the 'gods' or the 'animal spirits' for laying down their lives to feed them. Eating meat does not necessarily mean one vibrates at a lower level imo. The truest level is one's intent and willingness to go the distance to back up the aid offered to the animals one eats. Well...at least that's how I see it. But then...I don't know many people like me who go the distance and actually make offerings to Pretas many nights either like I do.* *Waits for someone to point and laugh at her ignorant literalistic interpretation.

Congrats Darin. I hope someday I'll be able to awaken my Yang Chi (Kundalini) too.

More KAP goodness. I can't afford their lessons. They've bumped the price to over $600 for the lessons. Still...there's good stuff here to try to follow as an outline for one's own DIY practice someday. I *AM* going to do everything I can to learn Clarity's methods! People should definitely check him out too. I suspect it would be complimentary with KAP.

Another good idea I plan to implement. I'd really like to learn how to do energy healing methods or karmic corrections, whatever to help others.

I'm going to start trying to do Secret Smile again. Inner Smile too.

ROFLMAO!! :lol:

More OHM! :lol:

I've got a knot and stagnation at my 2nd chakra which I think is tied to the Water Element. Is there a physical exercise (Qi Gong/Nei Gong) that can loosen it and get it flowing freely again?

OK. My mistake. According to Hindu religions the 2nd Chakra is the domain of Water

Is it demonstrated in the following vid?