JustARandomPanda

The word "Beliefs" is in the title of this thread.

How interesting that this topic has come up. I recommend reading Liao-Fan's 4 Lessons. A classic in China. I agree with Marblehead one would also need to add elbow-grease to manifesting the result. But in addition to elbow-grease I would add do kind deeds for others. By reading the above story I linked to you'll see why I advise those 2 additional things (elbow-grease + good deeds).

The above makes sense but wouldn't one's Heart-Mind need to be opened in order for our ENTIRE being to 'instantly' work the mantra's intent? Otherwise...why does every spiritual tradition I've come across stress the need to cultivate a calm mind where thoughts naturally cease to arise as a prerequisite for further spiritual evolution? If it were easy to do the 'Once with our Entire Being' thing why the need for repetitive Mantra-ing at all? It'd just be more efficient and effective to Pray. Same result with more bang for your buck.

ROFLMAO!!! OMG I love that pic!

Ah. Not so Dwai! You most definitely have valuable info to impart! I always disputed with Vajrahidaya that other religions could not lead to Enlightenment. I mean...imo...any spiritual tradition that can give rise to a Great Being like Babaji is NOT a tradition to be looked down upon! Furthermore...did I mention I am a big fan of the Yogi Master Yogiraj Gurunath? Well as for that particular Mantra...hmm. I was kind of drawn to it for some reason. I definitely need a BIG DOSE of PEACE and CONTENTMENT in my life as my whole life has been influenced too much by fear, timidity and cowardice. Anyway, It is a short, little book but has a nice audio cd in the back that comes with it so you can actually hear the author chanting each mantra listed in the book many times and get it down correctly. It does seem to be the case that on Amazon (and definitely in my local bookstores) books with Hindu mantras outnumber ones with Buddhist ones. And as for Sufi or Jewish mantras...well...I have yet to see one. I guess they stick to keeping their assorted Mantras as teacher/student spoken-transmissions only. In any case, I need help with the lower chakras. Clearing away the obstacles is hopefully one of the things I would like to see manifested. Honestly...that's why I wondered what happens if say someone was determined to chant this mantra for many years? Have anyone ever heard of any particular kinds of blessings or other things that happen if you do so? I know the author of that book says if you chant "X" number of times - say 100,000 times - the more you chant it the more you saturate your entire being with the effects/blessings of that Mantra. It's just that he did not specify what added benefits may come from going on such a determined Mantra-Chanting spree. So I figured I'd ask here if anyone knew.

It's a thin book and he does mention that he has several books that are thicker and go into greater detail but he does try to break down each mantra to some degree and explain what it's invoking or doing. The Actual Beings thing I got from other teachers. And I'm not sure Buddhism is the sole religion that teaches about the Vow Form realm. I suspect that Vedantist's sufficiently well along enough in their practice become aware of it too. I think it has something to do with how the Mind (big M - as in unconditioned Heart-mind, not little m - the mind most scientists and psychologists refer to) brings things about. I once asked Vajrahidaya about this very subject. Primarily because Master Nan mentioned how important making and keeping vows are to advancing in prajna wisdom (or whatever the equivalent thereof is in Hindu religions). I believe Master Hsuan Hua also taught something similar. Master Hua had a long list of Vows he made. Very beautiful and inspiring. I know a lot of people on this board did not like Vajrahidaya and I admit sometimes he was pretty good at rubbing people the wrong way. However, if you are able to set aside your own experiences, beliefs, notions, ideas...whatever...it increases the odds of you actually listening. Anyway here is what Vajrahidaya had to say about the making of Vows and the Vow Form Realm to me. Now Bill Bodri teaches (and I presume he got this teaching directly from Master Nan himself considering how many years he was with Master Nan directly and Master Nan is still Bodri's Guru) that whenever one chants a Mantra (as opposed to say...merely counting one's breath as beginners do in Zen) it has an extra benefit in addition to the quieting of the mind. Doing Mantra taps into the Vows of the Enlightened Being / whatever made them to give aid to the Mantra chanter. As Santiago Dobles told one of his Kundalini classes (though he was referring I think to HoOpoOno and Sufi mantras) - "they open and close doors". Santiago said, "They are to get specific things done.".

My apologies. I bow to everyone else's wisdom in this thread. I'll go scrub my mind now. It needs a good scrubbing anyway as it's been filled with all kinds of spiritual edumacation. Twinner especially would approve of the scrubbing. p.s. To Future Taobums readers who find this thread via the Search function...please do your own research. Less error that way. Also apologies to Anamatva. The "oodles of Jing" post was meant solely for future Taobums who find this thread via the Search function. I forgot to clarify it as such.

Does this mean even the 7th of Thusness's stages is still within the Alaya (and thus even the 7th stage is false Realization)?

Master Nan Huai-Chin says Awakened Chi is Awakened Kundalini. Prior to that all people are really doing is playing around with and cultivating their 5 elemental "winds" as Buddhism calls them. It is not true Chi yet as overall Taoist Internal Alchemy hierarchy classifies things (Jing/Chi/Shen/Void). Many Chinese call these prior kinds of chi 'fan-chi' to differentiate. And compared to true Chi all these various kinds of chi are 'Yin' in nature. None of these assorted "chi's" have made the leap from Jing to Chi yet. From thence Yang Chi goes through all kinds of stages mentioned in the article you linked to to finally transmute to Shen and thence Shen does the same to finally transmute to the Void. Fullblown Kundalini is VERY YANG compared to *everything* that one experienced and cultivated prior to it's activation. Anyway, since Master Nan's been validated as fully Enlightened by 4 different traditions (including Esoteric Buddhism - aka Vajrayana) and experienced every transmutation stage I figure he would know. I'm sure Yang Chi means different things to different people as it did in that article you linked to (although even that article you linked to used the Jing/Chi/Shen/Void hierarchy of Taoist Internal Alchemy) but whenever I mention it I mean precisely and exactly what Master Nan Huai-Chin himself means which is the same as all the assorted Indian Religion's "Kundalini Shakti". The Chinese call Sushumna, Zhong Mai. I simply prefer to use the overall Chinese way of describing the whole spiritual evolutionary process instead of Indian religious ones. But they're all ultimately just various culture's fingers pointing to the same moon.

Oh... And 2 final tips you might try. 1. Recite a section of a dharma teaching to either a person, animal or even an empty room or outdoors every day. 2. Try to make an extra effort - above and beyond what you normally would - every day - to do a good deed. Doing the above 2 things will speed up Yang Chi awakening - and speeds up the day your Heart-mind will fully open.

Twinner...what all did you discard? And what precisely did you "begin" only once you'd discarded...well whatever it is you discarded? Did that include discarding the belief in the need to discard? p.s. not trying to be an ass. I have struggled (still am actually) with how in the world one "discards" beliefs. Including, I presume, the belief in the need to discard beliefs.

This is fascinating and leads me to a question. It's my understanding that as one begins to practice mind-training exercises one has assorted Realizations along the way. Are these Realizations false or Pseudo-Realizations since Alaya has not yet been transcended? See...I have often wondered how did the Buddha know he had "finally made it" so to speak. Especially since so many others thought they did (and probably would argue till they're blue in the face they did) but actually were not. Shurangama Sutra is just chock full of such cases. I still do not understand how Buddhists square the circle of No-Self/Emptiness teachings with the Mahaparinirvana Sutra. Especially when they like to shout that so-and-so is being a Nihilist or an Eternalist or "reifying" this or that Realization or Sutra and thus doesn't have Right View (and I guess therefore doomed to failure like all those Shurangama Sutra examples?). After reading some Shurangama (I own 8 volumes of it) - especially the section on the 50 Skanda-Demon States - I was amazed at just how many make errors. They think they've made it to Buddhahood. Except they didn't. That still baffles me to this day. How did the Buddha know he had "flashed" beyond Alaya once and for all? Does that invalidate all the other Realizations made on the way prior to that final one?

Oh. One other resource. And I can firmly vouch that it does work as I've tried it. If you want to raise oodles and oodles of Jing very quickly there is no faster way than to follow Taobum's very own Witch's (Marena Lindberg) diet and exercise program which is specifically designed to do exactly that. I can personally vouch that she's absolutely right. Witch managed to open her 3rd eye via this program. That is - she independently re-invented some ancient Taoist and Yogic techniques that raise a huge amount of Jing very quickly but teaches it in modern, easy to understand terms of exercise and certain ratios of certain dietary supplements. The results can be particularly hard for men because the need for relief will be overwhelming. But the idea is to try as much as you can to not ejaculate so that that massive amount of Jing will power up and convert to Yang Chi (Kundalini). I've linked to Witch's book below. It's written for women but men who go on her diet/kegel program have the same result - massive amounts of Jing raised in a *very* short amount of time. The Orgasmic Diet p.s. I had to quit her diet before awakening Yang Chi because I'm not in good health. However, once my issues are cleared up I plan to jump back into it.

Anamatva You can join the following for tons of advice and help with Yang Chi Awakenings (aka Kundalini): Kundalini Support Network [email protected] One of my teachers - Tao Semko - is also available for Yang Chi Awakening help at Uuma Tantra Enjoy!

I got it from this book, Mantra Meditation and the author got that mantra from his Guru Sadguru Sant Keshavandas. By adding the Gum seed syllable it sort of "turbo charges" the effects of the Lakshmi by knocking down the obstacles preventing the Lakshmi half from enacting. And my obstacles are very great from many decades of not accumulating merit. Anyway, I presume it to be a Safe mantra since the author intended this book's mantras to be used by everybody who buys the book - including those whom like me do not have a Sifu/Guru. With the addition of the Maha I understand it invokes the Heart-Mind so that whatever one wishes to bring about via the Lakshmi mantra - it will be in accord with Heart-Mind. [and thus means you are much less likely to override something like the Hippocratic Oath - aka ahimsa]. I presume that both Lakshmi and Ganesha are Enlightened Beings. Reciting Mantras taps into the Vows of Enlightened Beings (among other things). So I assumed the various Religions of India would preserve the knowledge of the Vows of said Enlightened Beings the way they are known of many Buddhist's Bodhisattvas/Buddhas. If this is not so and they are merely principles then I find it easier to think of them purely in terms of Yin/Yang.

Thanks. I prefer to mantra in Sanskrit. According to Wikipedia the original Sanskrit version is this one: Can someone tell me how to pronounce the above Mantra phonetically correctly?

In all the resources I've consulted about how karma works (which granted are not many) I did not see something particularly discussed that I myself have ruminated over recently. It is this: All the negative karmas - the bad actions I've performed - has one other bad result aside from the fact it leads to intense suffering and future negative events. The far greater damage even than your own suffering is the fact that it shuts down options in giving aid to others that otherwise would have remained open to you. This is an exceedingly dangerous thing to happen. The more bad things you do - the more you are shutting down your avenues for aiding other beings. It's like compound interest in reverse. An exceedingly bad feedback loop to be setting up. This is why keeping Precepts, Taoist Virtue cultivation, doing frequent good deeds and observing the Hippocratic Oath (First, Do No Harm) is soooo important. You do not want to start getting into an ever-amplifying/compounding negative feedback loop. This is why it's said Hell Beings have an exceedingly difficult time getting out of the Hell realms. With them being stuck there for Eons upon Eons upon Eons - time out of mind. Good Deeds are CRUCIAL to getting relief from suffering and good fortune manifesting again. But those good avenues (the good might-have-beens-to-aid-others that would've been open had they done good deeds) have been shut down to nearly infinitesimal proportions. The bad deed negative feedback loops have become so vast and numerous it takes no less than a very Great Being like Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva to save them. One of this Great Being's Great Vows was to not achieve Enlightenment until all the hells are emptied. "If not me, then who will go?" he said. It's said you can purify your own negative karmas (and thus set up a positive karma loop) by making frequent offerings to Ksitigarbha Bodhisattva. I've been having some unexplainable experiences enough recently that I'm convinced it's a real good idea to take that idea LITERALLY.

Ooh. I have wanted that book. It sounds like what Tibetan Ice describes is one of the early stages (Kundalini - aka Yang Chi up the Zhong Mai) purification of the body's 5 elements. I'm still trying to get to it. Running Secret Smile daily is one good way of making Yang Chi Awakening go more smoothly. I'm hoping to get that to happen myself sometime in the next few years.

Hello Twinner:. I was asking about the practicing organized religion thing among them, not whether they do any of those things you just listed. Since I haven't seen rampant societal breakdown among the organized religion folks evidence shows most are not doing daily deeds contrary to what you just stated above. It's all that other stuff that I was asking about. What about them...since you agree they aren't going to return to their original nature.

Hello Twinner: That statement above is cool although you seem now to be backtracking from the we need to replace religion stance you sermonized about in earlier posts. Why not get rid of completely the thing that is precisely what makes society profoundly sick as Vmarco repeatedly states and you've said in this very thread you agree with him? Anyway...It's just a matter of getting from Point A to Point B for society as quickly as possible. One question though puzzles me. You're preaching to the choir here - fellow spiritual cultivators in actual daily practice - the majority of whom agree with your position, put it into practice and whom furthermore are not organized religion laity, monks or nuns. Shouldn't you have made this very thread on Evangelical and Islamic forums and social networks? They are after all the very ones who ARE practicing and following the religions you hold up as examples of society's biggest problems. ******* First of all - anamatva is a practicing Buddhist. I think as one who puts the Buddha's practical exercises to use daily he's every bit as Spiritually Aware as you are that everyone is "born with an innate moral compass and spiritual compass". You just agreed with him in the very next sentence though that probably the majority of people never return to the state of knowing it directly for themselves. Since you say Religion should be replaced with "experience the joy of just being here and now without any preconceived notion of what here and now is" but since "most probably don't" return to that state anyway then um...they're kinda left hanging. And they still vote. And have kids. And are a larger percentage of the population (95% according to Vmarco!) than us spiritual cultivators. What do you propose they do instead?

Same thing happens in anti-theological regimes. Mao Zedong, Pol Pot, and Stalin murdered more people in their religion-hating regimes than all the history of Christian religious wars combined. Toss out all the world's religions as has been proposed as crucial in this thread and I say the problems denounced as being caused by religions will not change one whit. It'll just go by another name - preferably (by truly power-hungry clever elites and groups within those societies) using Heart-Mind Spirituality terminology. And what's even sadder is that only that tiny fraction of a percent of people who actually HAVE an opened Heart-Mind would know the travesty being done it its name. I recommend a lot of peeps in this thread go read Frank Herbert's Dune series and realize what he was commenting on was something deeper than religion...

These things and many other abuses besides are also on record of happening in completely State-Sponsored Scientific-Agnostic Countries as well and still goes on to this day. The U.S. has no unique claim to suppression of freedom of assembly or suppression of other rights of a populace. Power has found a way to use Religion to oppress people and it has found a way to do the same even when it has discarded Religion (as you advocate for to prevent same). You cherry pick your data too much. The kind of Spirituality you are making appeals to in this thread as being practical for a societal and political majority of the population of the U.S. is to open their true Heart-Mind. So let's call it what it is. You're advocating specifically for Heart-Mind Spirituality in everyday life by the majority of the population. Now it becomes much clearer to everyone in this thread exactly what it's going to take for society to get there. BTW - I'm not disparaging such a goal. It's why I meditate. But tell me...how realistic do you think that's gonna happen in the next 5-10 years in the U.S? I'm guessing you don't have much confidence it's gonna happen within your lifetime. Otherwise why post about how you are busy looking for a place to move to overseas? I presume this also means you have "Majority of Population has Opened Heart-Mind" in your checklist for a suitable country to move to?

People are misunderstanding my point. I am saying that the Flavor of the Age - this advocacy to prefer Spirituality to being Religious will Make No Difference in actual practice. It is a Distinction without a Difference. Without opening the TRUE Heart-Mind "Spiritual Living" results in far too many people doing exactly the same kind of Double Speak and oppression denounced of in so many Religions. Except now people will speak the New Language - the Language of the Unsplit Unshamed Naturally Whole Naturally Beautiful Newborn-Child Spiritual Self. And laws will be passed in it's Name, big and little social cliques will censure and ostracize in it's Name, lobbyists will pressure Congress in its Name, lawsuits will be brought in it's Name, products will be marketed and peddled in its Name and on and on and on... Opening the REAL Heart-Mind is an exceedingly difficult thing to do. Only a very tiny percent of any population is ready, willing and able to enact the changes to bring it about. If it were easy all of Society would be on their way to being Taoist Immortals or true Diamond Sutra Bodhisattvas by now with a statistically significant percentage already being ones. I don't see a Corporation owning Taobums. But if societies are to leave behind all religions (because the good in religions would also get tossed out with the bad) we'd need not just one but many multinational corporations owning websites just like Taobums because they'd be the only ones able to afford the monthly bandwidth bills since so many people would be using such sites as a resource for actually practicing Virtue born of an opened Heart-Mind. By Their Fruits Shall Ye Know Them...

Twinner... Are you forgetting your own recent thread about the U.S. becoming more Fascist everyday - to the point you posted you are now planning to move out of the country asap once you find a suitable country to move to? The U.S. is a secular society. Isn't this fact the very thing that pisses the Evangelicals off and why they want to Take America Back from those Godless Heathens? And yet this same quite Secular and Irreligious society is negating Rights after Rights after Rights that were hard won by the U.S. Founding Fathers. Religious authorities aren't the ones passing these laws or signing these edicts or issuing fatwahs. Nor is Religion being used to justify their necessity. That argument doesn't fly with irreligious people so you gotta say something else...like...oh...it's to fight Domestic Terrorism. And the parallels of THAT to the Spanish Inquisition are just too rich to not point out. Nature at it's finest. And "dialoguing" to "solve problems" doesn't seem to be stopping it either...whether from the Left, the Right or the Religious. In fact...I remember you having a hissy fit in the Global Revolution thread about how ultimately utterly pointless it was for the Occupy Wallstreeters to protest since their protests (surely that is a form of "dialogue" and "speaking Truth to Power", neh?) would end up changing virtually....ZIP. Nada. Nothing.You went on record stating the OWSers deserved nothing but scorn. You were Being Natural and Irreligious.

*scratches nose* Hmm...yes I could see how that might be the case. I think there is renewed argument in Linguistics whether language has the power to shape our reality. It used to be discredited but new research suggests that at least sometimes which language one speaks shapes what one experiences. I like Master Nan Huai-Chin but I certainly don't expect everyone else to. I mean...if I remember correctly, there were people who disliked the Buddha! If even He couldn't win universal liking by practically everybody I think it's unrealistic to think anyone else will either. AH!!! Now you say something that I have pondered quite a bit (and then decided maybe I'd better stop the monkey-mind chatter since I wasn't getting any answers via that method). A truth is something that NEVER changes. Hmm...Funny...I know people (including myself once upon a time) who would argue there can be no such thing. That someone's truth is always and only going to be their Truth from their perspective since you can't divorce Truth from perspective. Or I think that's how the argument runs. But...if let's say I take what you say as a Thought Experiment...I can not think of anything that I could say "this is True" *and* have it fit the above constraint (never changes for all eternity). At least not that I'm aware of at this time. For example, I have often puzzled why so damn many spiritual traditions or religions (not always the same thing imo) argue with each other over Whose Truth is the Real Truth. Vajrahidaya used to piss off some of the Taoists on this board with his constantly maintaining the superiority of Buddhism to virtually any other spiritual tradition this planet has ever experienced. Fascinating. In that case he would've probably mirrored back a huge, vainglorious ego that always defeated me in an intellectual debate. Ah...that was a bummer of a self-revelation. And one reason why I now try to not argue quite so much on Taobums anymore (not always successful at that unfortunately). It's definitely led to a reduction of my posting activity at TB. I had (and still do!) a bad habit of wanting to be "right" in any debate post I make. That's one reason why I got curious to see if I could go 3 months without ever forming an opinion or judgment about other people's posts. I didn't last 3 minutes. Well V I admit I have become more open to the above proposition and part of why I meditate and part of why I liked Buddhism was it's very science-like oriented nature. I liked how the Buddha himself said something to the effect of "if you do ABC you will get results XYZ. But don't just take my word for it. Do the work yourself and find out." In other words..it's one of the few traditions I know of that advocates testing to see if what the Founder said is true. Very different from the Christianity that I grew up with were everything was handed to me on a platter and I was told if I didn't believe it I was going to burn in hell for all eternity. *shudder* At least in Buddhism even beings stuck in hell eventually get another shot at doing better next time.