JustARandomPanda

I wonder if Marblehead agrees with that statement?

I just found out I've only been reciting an exceedingly tiny portion of the Shurangama Mantra. The full Mantra is 554 lines long. The longest Mantra in existence supposedly. Wow. I can't begin to imagine how long it would take to recite all 108 repeats of 554 lines each. No wonder Chan and other Asian Buddhists value it so highly.

Creation's sentiment is my sentiment. I wasn't particularly in favor of a Vedanta forum because I thought it would start a trend of making a subforum for every tradition out there. Anyway, if we're gonna be making subforums of assorted spiritual cultivation traditions I definitely want a Sufi subforum too. However, the "my realization is less clingy than your realization" does seem to be a recurrent theme. Time will tell if all these new subforums that are popping up will cause General Discussion to die. There are a lot of forums on the web where each religion has its own little forum alongside a General forum and they seemingly don't suffer too much from such a layout. It may be that the same can happen here.

Oops!! Sorry CT! Thanks!

Thank you. I found the Diamond Sutra here. It's a pdf doc and free. Also, Master Nan Hai-Chin has a book available on Amazon and B&N on the Diamond Sutra with his commentary. It's a surprisingly short sutra. Quite short compared to most sutras/suttas I've come across. The only sutra shorter than Diamond Sutra that I can recall is the Heart Sutra. Anyway I say Diamond Sutra Bodhisatva because the Buddha specifically mentions in it exactly what it takes to be a true Bodhisatva. Of course I am not even close to being at such a high level although I've no doubt there may be long-time meditators on this planet who would qualify as one by the Buddha's definition of such. I'm still trying to quell my monkey-mind. Master Nan says if you don't get to that stage then discussing anything else is moot. That seems to be the pre-requisite for anything else. So that's why I decided to try out a Mantra. VH in PM to me once compared the mind to a restless hamster. What do you do with a restless hamster, he said. You give it a wheel to run on so it will tire itself out. LOL. So that's what I've figured I'm gonna do. Fascinating. I have not heard of this mantra you mention nor the one mentioned by CowTao. Are they the same one? What are the benefits of these mantra(s) (other than quieting a restless mind)?

This is very similar to my view! My own little explanation to myself is that I want to approach the Buddha's teachings with the mind of scientist. I like the fact the Buddha said something to the effect of, "listen to what I teach - if you do ABC you will get results XYZ - however, do not simply listen and do nothing. You need to apply my teachings and test them yourself." So... Right now my practices are aimed at trying to quell my monkey-mind. Somedays when I meditate I seem to have a decent session. I don't really ever have true quiet periods but my thoughts will get "softer" or more in the background so to speak. Other days when I meditate I just can't seem to focus on my breath if my life depended on it. I try to remind myself that there will be "off days" where it seems like nothing I'm doing in trying to focus is working. After all...no pro athlete plays at the top of his/her game 100% of the time. Why should I expect the same of meditation? Especially since I've only REALLY gotten serious about it and making it a habit in the past 2-3 months. Still... I have made a promise to myself. I intend to become a Diamond Sutra Bodhisattva and then...on to full Buddhahood with all 3 bodies cultivated. I've also decided I do not have to wait until I'm that Diamond Sutra Bodhisattva before attempting to reach out and offering aid to other beings. So here are some of my current practices. 1. Ahimsa - Example: I have (had?) a cockroach in my kitchen and a small infestation of tiny ants. Now formerly I would've done everything I could to kill these bugs asap and spray poisons, etc. to end the infestation. Instead however I have vowed I will do whatever I can to insure these beings get safely to Buddhahood. Strangely...one night as I was painting at my easel...that little cockroach came out and it was in full light. Normally it is quite frightened, prefers the dark and easily spooked. This time however I sat there and the strangest feeling arose in me. I actually felt love and kindness toward it. It wasn't any kind of fantastic bliss state or anything like that. It was more of "I recognize you as my kin" kind of thing. The same Buddha Nature that is within me is within you too. Even weirder it actually approached me and started moving it's little feelers toward me instead of scampering away. Anyway...I haven't seen it in many days (maybe it's found a better hangout?) but I'm no longer going to kill these little beings. When they die I hope it will be due to simple ripe old bug age. 2. I am memorizing the Shurangama Mantra and own the first 8 volumes of the 9 volume set of the Shurangama Sutra with Master Hua Hsuan's commentary. His commentary is SO VALUABLE!!!! It is VERY extensive and makes hard to understand things spoken about in that sutra become very clear and understandable. If you are having trouble understanding the Shurangama Sutra I promise you you will not regret sinking money into at least the first 8 volumes of the 9 volume set. The 9th volume is just the whole Sutra without any of Master Hua's commentary for those who don't feel the need for it. Here's one interesting thing that happened to me after I started memorizing the Shurangama Mantra. It seems to be doing SOMETHING to me because whenever I start repeating it I feel my chi begin flowing. Furthermore ONLY since I began learning this mantra I would swear I felt my Lower Dantien heat up a bit! This is absolutely amazing to me because one of my main complaints for a long time is how incredibly cold I feel internally. I especially suffer from constant cold hands and feet. I also suffer from Fibromyalgia and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome at times and I'd swear this Mantra is helping improve my health! I only started committing to memorizing it a few days ago because Master Hua says incredible benefits come to those who take the time to actually memorize it and use it. It's a *very* long mantra - one of the longest in existence. So long it's technically known as a Dharani. He even says that if one memorizes and repeats this Mantra it will guarantee at least 7 future lifetimes free from poverty, disasters, etc (assuming one believes in rebirth - as I do). He says it plants very good seeds for one's future goal of Bodhisattva/Buddhahood. Here is a link to Master Hua talking about the Here is the link to the I used to learn the Mantra (it gives both the chinese and english translations) 3. I do the 6 Healing Sounds and I try to focus on them the same as I do my breath when I meditate. I follow Master Nan's instructions on doing them. To say them silently, long and rest at the end of each exhale. This will also help aid in quieting the mind in addition to helping the organs. 4. I've begun the White Skeleton Meditation. Bill Bodri says it begins transforming all the chi elements, including the most difficult one to transform - earth chi since it's the most dense. 5. I've begun Witch's Orgasmic Diet as it raises one's Jing and does so very quickly. I also learned from Swami Satyananda Saraswati when one focuses their attention on the bindu drop (aka cervix for women) while doing kegels daily eventually it will open the 3rd eye. Witch has confirmed this is exactly what it did for her. Her 3rd eye is open and she has done NO other kind of tantra or qi gong practice except her diet + kegels + focusing on the cervix while doing them. For now this is my current practice but probably in a few days I'm going to start doing Yamu's Gift of the Tao Qi Gong. I have his DVD and he says that if one practices his Qi Gong it will very quickly raises one's vibration rate. Since I also tend to think in Buddhist terms to me this means it's helping me to "let go" of grasping on the physical level.

I am slowly reading this thread and got to this post. I wanted to share a thing or two about this that I've learned recently. First off...a lot of this comes from Master Nan Hai-Chin who has been validated as Enlightened by 4 different traditions. One of those traditions being Taoism (another being Confucianism for those who - like me - weren't aware Confucians also have their own spiritual cultivation traditions and practices). Master Nan says when he first experienced Enlightenment he cried because he did not have all these miraculous attainments that are so talked about in Taoist, Confucian and Buddhist traditions. He traveled to Tibet and studied in Esoteric Buddhism. He says that purification and transformation of the body can have it's own timeframe (I'm paraphrasing here) compared to one's realization. The attainment of Complete Taoist Immortality (similar to Buddhist 3 bodies) can come either before, at the same time or *after* achieving Enlightenment. It's all due to one's past and current Karma, Virtue and Merit. It may take time for the body to catch up to one's actual Enlightenment. That's why it's exceedingly rare to find a sage who has cultivated to fruition all 3 dharma bodies. Enlightenment Realization is not dependent upon have a completely transformed body. It will come when it comes. This means that Taoist Internal Alchemy is neither inferior nor superior to Buddhist Alchemy techniques. They are different methods designed to help you get to the same place. Also...I choose to see it as something that takes the stress off of me in worry about whether I've "attained" enough or whether if I'm lacking in some sort of this or that "attainment" it means I won't reach my goal of Enlightenment. It will come when it will come when my practice, virtue and merit all come together finally. And that process takes time so sit back, let go, I'm in for an interesting ride.

Hi AB I'll try to explain it a little bit in the way I experience the process. Of course other Mods may see things differently. The following is how I see/experience it. It's informal. A Mod will read the submitted reports and then wait for at least 1-2 other Mods to discuss it. It's a slow method of moderation but it's evolved that way because in the early days "going it alone" for all but ridiculously minor offenses caused some problems. I've been out of the loop for a long time and only recently have come back to Taobums to see how things have evolved - this is just my experience of it atm. So far, from what I'm seeing it is "moderation by quorum consensus". That sums it up in a nutshell. And as with anything done via committee it almost guarantees slow response times to all but minor (or alternately exceedingly blatant and extreme) infractions. Also...the general rule of thumb by most Mods is - "when in doubt, don't act". Also when Modding this way it can have several outcomes. If we're lucky most Mods will have the same POV on a Report. Action in these cases is swiftest (either someone acts or all looking over the report agree there's no grounds for acting). If there is no immediate consensus (which happens aplenty) there's a lot of discussion that goes on where Mods will present their PoV of why action should/should not be taken. Of course when this happens it makes an already slow process even slower. There are a few rules (I think...not sure about that yet) but mostly everyone discusses a submitted Report in light of the Main Rule - Be Respectful - No Personal Insults. Almost all debate turns on how or how not a submitted Report violates/doesn't violate that one "golden rule". On a few occasions a submitted report might be about one of the other TB ToS violations but I'd say 90-95% of submitted reports are because one Taobum thought another Taobum submitted a post or thread that violated that "golden rule" and wants Mod action taken. And just as what you see in a Courtroom (or even here on the many Anti-Mod-Team threads at TB) sometimes PoVs on what constitutes/doesn't constitute a "golden rule" violation do not agree. Or there may be times when all Mods can see all sides of an issue and be truly puzzled as to what action should be taken. Sometimes we simply wait to see what evolves in a heated thread hoping the disputing parties will resolve the issue without our involvement. It's also one I myself tend to default to the most. (and why I harp occasionally about how more people need to use that Ignore function). If we are truly stumped about what to do and simply can not come to a consensus amongst ourselves as to the appropriate action to take (or alternately we see all presented evidence/POVs have merit to them) we sometimes appeal to the Grand Poobah himself - Sean. As you can see...weirdly...in our efforts to lightly mod TB...putting in the protections of a "courtroom debate" process plus often waiting to see heated threads evolve and give members a chance to resolve their disputes themselves... we actually go to a lot of trouble behind the scenes to try to preserve Freedom of Speech while yet trying to foster a respectful, sharing and open atmosphere. It's damn hard trying to balance these two goals. Someone always ends up pissed at us.

I've been doing meditation practice a lot more these days. I've been trying to just be aware of the flow of air in and out of my nose. I've been surprised about a few things like.... Just how damn many thoughts I have running through my head. There's a whole cascade of them in there! Like a blizzard. Also how damn hard it is to keep focused on just being aware of my breathing. I do not know how the hell it happens but sometimes a thought or reverie will come up and I'll kinda get swept up in it. Then something snaps...it's like waking up in a daze and I'll be shocked wondering how the hell did THAT happen?! I don't even remember getting swept up in the reverie...it just happens. I notice that as my breathing gets softer and slower the blizzard of thoughts gets softer or quieter. There's still tons of them there but they do get softer or quieter. On a few rare occasions a few tiny moments of no thoughts pops up here and there. But those moments are rare. I'm trying hard to "have the mind of a beginner" like Zen teachers recommend. It's not easy to keep Beginner's Mind.

*heavy sigh* I wish I had a karmic connection to a Lineage like this. BTW - what is the difference between Dzogchen and Mahamudra? Do both need a transmitting teacher for one to get started in it?

Done. I also moved a thread that personally interests me. One about Master Lam and ZZ.

Well for what it's worth it seems Wang Lipang teaches a Taoist walking meditation You can read about how to do it here.

soon, I'll report you for obvious trolling. You said yourself you only have knowledge in Yang Long Form and nothing else. This is quite clear to see. Interesting. I was not aware ChiDragon has publicly admitted this.

If said historical threads meet the forum's requirement of being Taoist focused I don't see why they can't be moved and I don't see why the other Mods would object to doing this. In fact, moving old Taoist threads here may give newer people the chance to learn from them who didn't get the opportunity to see them the first time. Many people have joined Taobums in the past few years and I bet a lot of wisdom from older Taobums days would be perfect for deeper or re-exploration in a forum such as this. I'm sure there are many old Taobums Taoist topics that would still be helpful to Taoist noobs today. So if you or any other Taobummers have certain threads in mind that you'd like to see moved then start letting us know. It'd be extra helpful if you could actually link to the thread(s) so the Mods could move them immediately.

Good heavens. How does one give a thread a Star?!! I was not even aware this is possible to do so. Can someone explain to me how to do it?

How can one "precise discourse" on things that are non-verbal?

Hmm... It was my understanding that what you described in the quote above is only a preliminary state. Cessation of thought and calmness are for prepping the "soil" so it opens up a "space" for real inquiry into the Tao to begin. Too much cessation of thought is thought to be just as unnatural in Buddhism as I suspect it is in Taoist meditation practices. I recall reading about monks who focused so much on stilling the mind to reach an empty state it crossed over into being unnatural (unTao-ish?). The phrase "Dead Tree Zen" comes to mind.

I am already happy with the way this new Taoist forum is flowing. There is so much to learn and apply. And while I'm happy Buddhists or other energy/mystic-tradition practitioners are contributing to TB I confess I'm beginning to spend more time in this forum than the General one. General forum has evolved into a lot of head-in-the-clouds discussions that I have a hard time relating to - especially since I have zero actual experiences in many of the things being discussed. This forum seems more down to earth and talks about things I can actively put into practice myself. BTW - the Taoist Forum is not a subforum. It's at the same hierarchical level as the General forum. It's just designed to be more specifically laser-focused on Taoist topics and Taoist-practices. There's something else I like about it. I do not have the money to visit a Taoist temple in China. Nor anyone where I live that I can apprentice with like a Taoist priest or lineage. That means a lot of what I learn is going to be a DIY approach which means I'll be relying on a forum like this one to learn about Taoism. Especially Internal Alchemy Taoist practices which is where my main interests in it lie.

Thank you for sharing this Oat1239. It is hard to find Taoist texts...even harder to find authentic Confucian ones. I'm very tempted to buy this ebook along with the author's book on women's cultivation.

*Stands up and cheers* OMG. Someone has finally come out and said what I thought during this and other Vmarco-participated posts! Sooo many people just can not seem to stop themselves from hitting that Reply button to someone who ticks them off. I have tried on several occasions to remind people the Ignore function works and to take full advantage of it. If more people actually USED it I think we would indeed see less modding to ever come up. But unfortunately human nature doesn't seem to work that way. Fewer people than I thought can walk away from a thread that devolves. No. It's not to be a hands-off approach. If it *really* were a hands-off approach the only Mod on Taobums should and would be Sean himself. That's it. No other mods, period. Make no mistake in this...Sean himself wanted the atmosphere at Taobums to change. I can not stress this point enough. The mods were asked to act to change this board's atmosphere to be more in line with the spirit of what Sean himself envisioned for it. Specifically he wanted it to become a more welcoming and inquiring place rather than the Wild West atmosphere where online brawls broke out that the formerly No-Mod board like Taobums used to be had become. We try our best to be fair. Think of a committee. It's become much like a Parliment or Congress. Issues are debated and discussed and there are true disagreements between how and what action - if any - should be taken. There are real disagreements with how to proceed on many issues that pop up and as with a Parliament or Congress the side with the most "votes" wins in how or whether to proceed. Although Taobummers see only the uniform public face when any Mod posts behind the scenes sometimes it is anything but. True impartiality with any Modded board imo is impossible. The only way for Taobums to be truly impartial is to go back to having zero mods. It would be the Wild West here again. In some ways although Taobums back then did have a rather more hostile environment it also was a *very* level playing field. No one person had any more powers, priviledges or responsibilities than any other. If there are zero mods it forces people to rely on their own wisdom to deal with people they find to be online bullies, threatening, etc. People would remember they could A) put other people on ignore, B ) stick to a personal practice forum or C) walk away and find another forum.

One is always free to continue posting Taoist topics in the General Forum too. If you are concerned your Taoist topic won't get a full exploration in the Taoist forum then please continue with your usual habit of posting it to the General Forum. I know I won't be moving any Taoist topic started in General to this one (can't speak for other Mods though) as I see that as an expression of the thread starter's preference.

Oddly, for me this sounds Taoish, not Buddhist so much.

About Taobums once used to be a Taoist forum - well, all I can say right now is - Stay Tuned... What Once Was...Yet May Be...

So.... I see this term thrown around a lot and I confess I am confused by it. Heartmind this, Heartmind that. People arguing about whether it can be verbalized and described or not. I am a beginning meditator. I've still got monkey-mind that I'm trying to settle down. But I still read the meditation and practice threads. First I read in one thread that one needs to "get rid of all beliefs". Then other peeps say that's not possible, that one can only change one's core beliefs, not get rid of them. But then I read in YET ANOTHER thread that we do, indeed need to get rid of all beliefs! Especially if one is to uncover (reveal? experience?) Heartmind. So I am opening up this thread for discussion on the nature of what to me is still a mysterious beast. What is this Heartmind and how can we tell what it is and when we're experiencing it or expressing it? Are there any SPECIFIC meditational or internal alchemical practices that let one connect to it or whatever?

I am curious to see what Taobummers would think of the creation of a more Taost-Thematically oriented Forum. Mine and Taomeow's proposal: 1. This forum would be open for all things to do with Taoism as it is known from historical Taoist texts, schools, Linneages, Qi gong, Internal Alchemy, etc. 2. Your post must in some way be about Taoism or discuss Taoist practices. 3. Threads and posts which deviated from these themes would be moved to the (recently renamed) General Forum. The General forum would retain it's de facto purpose of any-philosophy/religious/practice-debate-goes-as-long-as-it's-within-the-ToS format. (VERY obviously non-philosophy/religious/practice threads would still go to Off-Topic instead). Note: Taoist threads could still be opened in the General Forum as well. Taobummers would get to pick and choose. The could go for the more-open General Forum or the more strict Taoist-themed forum (which would stand equal to the General forum on the hierarchy tree) which would be more focused in it's discussions. Your thoughts?