JustARandomPanda

Thank you for the clarification. Despite your earlier reply to me that you are both right it still sounds as if both of you can not be. 3Bob and GoldisHeavy seem to agree with you. Xabir (and maybe LuckyStrikes) seems to agree with Vajrahidaya. I am so utterly baffled at how so many people through the ages can have all these high and exceedingly deep Meditative Truths revealed to them and they all come out squabbling with each other over what they mean! More and more I am thinking of Marble's story of the Old Sage who remained Silent when asked to explain the Tao was pretty darn wise.

So I take it 3bob that you do not agree with the following? 3Bob, are you a Buddhist? For some reason from your posts I always thought you were a Taoist.

I take it Xabir this is the crux where Buddhists depart with Dwai (and I presume other Advaita-ers)? Buddhists say upon examination even the True Self is discovered to be a collection of empty aggregates? Am I understanding this right or not? GiH said that the above statement is wrong (if I understood him correctly). I said I had learned something like this from reading Buddhist books and said GiH's explanation of how Mind and Mindset work sounded very Hindu. Rigpa = Mind, Sems = Mindset. The mind reflects mindset. One can experience the Mind without Mindset just as a mirror can exist without reflecting anything. Or so he says - assuming I understood him correctly. Dwai...do you agree the above is correct? Is this what one experiences when meditating long enough?

That's why I particularly liked Blasto's answer. Thanks Marble. TaoBums is lucky to have someone like you posting.

But this is precisely what Vajrahidaya tells me. That No-Self is not an opinion but a Fact. Whom then am I to believe? Both of you can not be Right. He points to his personal experiences and to Buddhist texts to back his claims up. You do exactly the same by pointing to personal experiences and to Hindu texts. Again...whose Truth is the Real Truth?

I like that Dwai posted it. It's fuel for thought. Dwai said his belief is based upon his personal experiences and Vedanta texts. In this he is similar to Vajrahidaya who says he believes in No-Self because it's based on his personal experiences and Buddhist texts.

I don't. I like the idea of letting go of both. Don't cling to either a True Self or No-Self. Just Let Go.

And This... Let go of the belief of a True Self or a No-Self. Must say I rather like that. But I have no idea why. It just is. Edit: Dwai...I'd like to know why you like the idea of a True Self. Just curious.

This sounds very Nietzschean. I take it you are a fan of his?

How then do you explain it 3Bob? I'd like to listen.

Thank you 3Bob for this sutra. It's so delightful to see correspondence's between Buddhism and Taoism. I'm pretty sure similar insights are available in other traditions with similar practices. I find myself attracted to both Zen and Taoism as they both seem to emphasize living simply and just going with the flow of things. It was with Zen Buddhism's anapata (sp?) breath meditation that I'm finally beginning to gain some success at quieting my monkey-mind. The more it quiets down the more delighted I am to find that a quiet mind is it's own reward. I never would've believed until i actually did it just how much sheer relief floods my body and my emotions when my mind stills. I've even felt my body respond by muscles I didn't even know where tense begin to relax - all the little stabilizer muscles that regular exercise doesn't really target well just being to relax. It's amazing seeing and feeling graphically just how tied our mental states are to our bodies. It's saddened me to see so many people at Tao Bums turned off from Buddhism when it really has quite a lot to offer and so much of it fits in harmoniously with Taoism. They may or may not lead to the same ultimate insights but speaking just for me I don't care about that. The practices of each - Buddhism and Taoism - are their own reward.

It's too bad this online petition will do absolutely nothing to change the U.S. legislatures. All it does is preach to the choir and make them feel good momentarily like they've "done something". If the famous figureheads signing it had wanted to counter the Oil Lobbies and really change the Gulf Oil Spill situation they should've gotten off their duff and hit the streets gathering signatures the old-fashioned way. That's the only kind of petition that counts according to U.S. law.

I stopped signing online petitions when I found out how useless they are for getting legislatures to listen. Online petitions are ignored by the U.S. Congress and state legislatures because no one can be verified. The only kind of petitions recognized by them are ones done the old-fashioned way - on paper with thousands of individual hand-written signatures (which would be a feat difficult to forge).

Chinese Shamanism

Wanted to add I've finally found some success in stilling my mind with Zen-style breathing. I just am aware of breathing. I don't bother to "follow" it or "focus" on my dantien or anything else. I found that adding those activities on top of just being aware thwarted me from my goal. My mind is still too jumpy and monkey-ish to be able to manage anything more - at least for now. Supposedly...according to Bill Bodri (if I understood his blog post correctly) he says the Buddha attained his highest insights with this one simple activity...just being aware of his breathing without bothering to add anything else to it. It also is a style of breathing that's popular with Taoists. I guess because they figure awareness of breath will take care of itself.

Can someone explain how to do this? Put the 6 directions into Zhan Zhuang?

Why so much hate for Buddhism, Starjumper?

Jitterbug Perfume by Tom Robbins

Ralis...did you go to a Kunlun seminar with Max first or has it only been practice via the book instructions?

Some of the western mystery books I've been reading call the process you just described Pathworking. Dolores Ashcroft-Nowiski has several books using it. It can either be directed or spontaneous - both of them very Taoist-like.

That description of Spanda (Vibration) made me think of String Theory. Isn't one of the things String Theory posits is that the universe is a series of vibrations of subatomic particles?

I read some of Winpro's old posts before he asked for deletion of his account and he said spiraling at the waist is a good way to raise one's chi. Curiously, I read something recently about Kriya Yoga that spiraling chi up the central channel will do more to power up one's energy than years of dedicated work in other systems. It immediately reminded me of Winpro's posts about physically spiraling at the waist. I wondered if that is an outer Chi Kung way of getting at least some chi spiraling up the center inside. BTW - what is the Chi Kung term for the central channel? I only know it by it's Yoga term Sushumna.

What movements generate chi?

I don't 'think' that, I know that, and Lao Tzu specifically pointed it out. Taoism may be odd for you but it's home for me, build a bridge. Marblehead...since you know Lao Tzu so well can you quote me the chapter(s) and paragraph(s) that confirm that Lao Tzu said it is a good thing that some people can't comprehend Tao? Would greatly appreciate it. Thanks.