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I didn't get it wrong at all. Swami Saraswati says often times people get it backwards - they attempt to still the mind before they've evened out their energy. He specifically mentioned to expect and ignore the turbulence of one's mind. Often times our energy is too turbulent and scattered and attempts at meditation will fail. He has an entire chapter discussing exactly this point. People in modern societies are particularly prone to this because so much of our society is geared to intellectualization of everything. By the time people graduate from High School most have greatly over-developed higher chakras at the expense of the lower ones. This creates societies of a lot of unbalanced, energetically-taxed people. He mentions that since Meditation fails for many people then the obvious route is to go with the body first. The mind will be dragged along. it's not unlike the philosophy of KAP and certain other Yogic or Qi Gong practices. Do the exercises and don't worry about the monkey mind. The body's energy will steady and only THEN will many people finally see success with meditation. I'll post directly some of his commentaries on exactly this point later so one can see for themselves how Witch attained her abilities without worrying about whether her mind or thoughts were "slow" enough or "absent" at all. p.s. He did say that Awakened Kundalini and Enlightenment are two different things. The former is just a first step on the road to the latter.

There are chapters on diet but I haven't gotten to that point in the book yet. From flipping through it there appear to be Ayurvedic recommendations based on one's type and goals. But he does appear to say that diet can help or hinder.

Well Witch he wrote the book first for Indians and only later was it translated. I'm guessing perhaps Indians have a more natural diet than the overly-processed, chemical-laden, Omega 3-stripped diet the typical American has. So it may be your book contributes something truly and genuinely new to Tantric and energy-practices knowledge. that is...what happens when a society's cultural diet is no longer primarily natural-based. Just one more "blockage" (dietary) to try to overcome perhaps on the road to Enlightenment (or at the very least in increasing one's internal chi).

Sadly no. There are a whole host of other conditions that one needs to do in order for one to reach it. And Get this! He mentions there are potentially-scary Ultra-Fast methods to reach that state (he described some methods similar to Kunlun!) and much slower but much safer methods of getting there. Very few modern day people - in his opinion - have the resources to draw upon to go the Ultra-fast route even with a guru to turn to. If they have success with this method he says that means their karma is such that they would've had success no matter what route taken. Modern-day people he thinks should stick with slower, safer methods and be under the supervision of a guru. There are just too many factors in modern society that sabotage one's efforts. And it can be worse off for people in Western Societies because we don't have a general culture that supports or understands the psychology or methodologies of someone going through periods of energy-upheaval and purging to attain Enlightenment.

Just read something else the Swami said. He says it is much easier for women to open their third eye than for men (thus perhaps lending some credence to the idea that women are more naturally intuitive than men since Ajna is the chakra associated with intuition). Also the reason for the red dot between the eyes is that it provides a direct physical stimulation connection to Ajna. Certain substances placed there will continually stimulate the pineal gland and thus speed awakening Ajna. However...he says the vast majority of modern-day Indians have forgotten the real reason for this practice and now do it for habitual cultural reasons.

The reason he says that is that the woman not orgasming is for one reason only - gaining Enlightenment. If you don't care about attaining Enlightenment and just only want to awaken chakras then it doesn't matter if you don't orgasm or not. Although I did gather that trying to extend the time one flexes before orgasming is how those chakras are awakened in the first place. In other words...the instructions reminded me of how similar they are in telling men to try to hold off for as long as possible orgasming. Go long enough and enough "steam" is built up that it must seek an outlet. Since the usual path is denied it begins it's ascent to the Heart and Ajna chakras (in women...haven't read far enough in the book to see if it does the same with men). Oh...get this...one of the things he says the uniting of Mooladhara energy with Ajna creates is....ENTITIES! And it indicates there are still blockages because the entity or entities created are expressions of Mooladhara's ancient blood karmas (or...as he said might be thought of in modern terms...energy patterns finally expressed from one's DNA). If this happens it still indicates blockages that have yet to be worked out. Again this only matters to women who desire to work for Enlightenment. If you don't give a hoot about that goal then don't bother with whether there are blocks or not. According to Swami Saraswati flexing mooladhara is what generates the sex energy. Orgasming is not required. In fact...to awaken the other chakras the woman tries to go longer and longer before doing so. And of course...if she wishes to attain Enlightenment ideally she would not submit to an orgasm at all...thus forcing the sex energy to unite with her crown chakra and exploding into Awakened Consciousness. However...the results will be fleeting if she doesn't work at opening the MCO along with all the other chakras. He was clear about this tantric difference. In men the Mooladhara bindu point is the perineum. In women the Mooladhara bindu point is just behind the cervix. And sahajoli is for both men and women. It's just that the bindu point focused on is anatomically different.

Indeed I would. But I don't go around blaming men for being confused or hypocrites. Actually I'm pretty visual too I suppose. My BF is into bodybuilding (though not to the proportions seen in bodybuilding magazines).

I wanted to share something I've just learned recently. I think I now understand why Witch's 3rd Eye is open as is her Heart Chakra. It appears she independently re-discovered an ancient Yogic Tantric technique for women that is specifically designed to do exactly that - open the 3rd Eye and Heart Chakras. I am currently reading the book Kundalini Tantra by Swami Satyanada Saraswati. In it he describes some women-only tantric techniques for opening various chakras. One of them is flexing Mooladhara chakra - the sex chakra. Or to put it in modern terms - kegels + awareness. If a woman does this exercise often enough and long enough it WILL (not just maybe but *will*) open those chakras. On p. 105 he states.... In another chapter he goes into detail how this practice - flexing mooladhara chakra is one of the easiest ways for women to open their third eye. It can also open their heart chakra.

What a weird thread. Did I stumble onto Fastseduction.com or something? I'd just like to point out that it is not only women that are a mass of contradictions when it comes to the dance of sex between the genders. Men are this way too. That was one thing Gurdjieff hammered into his student's heads time and time again. One "I" will vow to get a certain thing done but then another "I" fails to follow up on it. One "I" will say one thing but another will do another. It's unfair to label women as being a morass of confused hypocrites when the exact same condition is at work in men too. There are certain TaoBum men I've talked to whom were interested in a woman they met online - until they saw what she looked like - then all her charm built up over the weeks between them that enchanted him was flushed down the drain. Guess those guys didn't know themselves as well as they thought they did.

This is true. I wasn't trying to excuse things. Just trying explain the mechanism of how this weirdness plays out in practice.

Society expects people to develop grace under pressure. It's the ideal. Adults are supposed to have extraordinary amounts of it. Little children nearly none. But to get to the ideal one has to practice it. This is why you see this seeming inequity. It's why you see people in relationships where one takes an incredible amount of "abuse" from someone else. What I say is "abuse" may be something someone else has learned to take with unflappable grace. This is true in families and it's true in society at large. The rule of thumb (all members of society must develop the practice of grace under pressure) is enshrined even in most western democracy's criminal code.

Is it possible to reverse-engineer one's Chinese astrological chart? I don't know the time or parentage - (I was a give-away baby) of where and how I was born and none of the records available have this information. All of the above is a total black-box.

TaoMeow has a forum? Where?

I like much about Castaneda but he was full of shit on this one. (Perhaps because he disliked his -- granted, stupid and uninspiring -- wife and abandoned his own son and needed to create a defensive self-justification so as not to feel guilty.) The holes appear from NOT having kids or from not treating them right. The holes MEND from having, and treating right, a reasonable number of kids (too many are indeed depleting if you take real emotional, mental and physical care of all of them, and how many is "too many" -- for some people it's even one, others can do it for two or three... more is indeed depleting. The cut-off number of people one can truly love -- not in the new-agey sense of the word love, in the sense of die for without a second's hesitation -- is seven. It means that a human being was originally intended to love two parents, one spouse, two or three kids, and a friend or two or a grandparent or two or a teacher or two -- if there's more people in need of his/her love, or fewer, it produces holes in the energy body.) Even physiologically it stands to reason that raising a family does not do as much damage as not raising one -- consider the following facts: bachelors live an average of 10 to 15 (depending on the country surveyed) years shorter lives than married men (which makes being married the single most efficient longevity strategy for males, statistically far surpassing any cultivation practice in existence); women who didn't have children get breast cancer at 10 times the rate of those who did; women who had children and breastfed them for close to a year have the lowest risk of all reproductive cancers; women who had very many sex partners (prostitutes) have 30 times the rate of cervical cancer; women who had no sex partners (nuns) have 10 times the risk of breast cancer and 15 times the risk of ovarian cancer compared to married women; and finally, the immortal female Sun Bu-er did find it difficult to cultivate while she was raising her children, so she cultivated an ordinary married woman's life -- being a great mother and a loving wife -- till she was 57, and that's when a celestial teacher sought her out and told her, "Now you're ready, for now your humanity is fully realized, so now you can come with me to the mountains and cultivate your immortality." She did just that -- to become one of the Eight Immortals, which makes her one of the most important and influential beings in the history of being. Now I can't help imagining what those celestial teachers think when someone is knocking on heaven's door who did plenty of arcane taoist cultivation but hadn't realized his or her humanity -- not just "fully" but even "slightly" -- by being fully human first. They are a merry bunch and they must be splitting their sides laughing every time they observe the dufus. To produce other humans and see them through is fully human. Tao invented it. You think she'd be punishing whoever follows her in this manner by installing a glass ceiling?.. She's not dumb, not cruel, and not self-defeating... she's the Great Mother herself, matter of fact... with no holes in her energy body resulting from the fact. Tao fa ziran -- tao patterns on herself The above post greatly disturbed me. Especially if it is based off of Objective Knowledge (instead of the normal subjective knowledge of a typical human) - that is, knowledge only available once the higher Heart-Wisdom center and Higher Intellect center have awakened to the Tao. I do not understand why women who do not have children are shit on so bad by the Tao. Does being a fully matured humane woman only show it's fullest and highest manifestation by getting pregnant and having a child? If so I am screwed no matter what I attempt to attain. I came into this world KNOWING (not just believing but actually KNOWING) even by the age of 5 that I was not going to ever have children of my own. It came true. Now I see someone of exceedingly high spiritual attainment compared to myself in the prior post saying how women who do not have children are damaged - this is born out as proof even medically - much less "energetically" . Well...so be it. It is what it is. I don't understand why the universe shits on women who do not have babies but whatever. Just because we don't like something doesn't mean it might not be true. So whatever. I still have an ego. I still have all 5 poisons as Buddhists talk about. I still have my "chief defective feature". My Essence (as Gurdjieff puts it) is very likely a stunted little nub. I still am asleep-at-the-wheel. I don't know what is right or wrong anymore. Sex fills me only with sadness and despair, not happiness. I doubt everything. And now apparently I find that remaining childless means I'm defective and not even a fully manifested loving woman nor will I ever know or be able to experience the highest heart-mind's love (the love that has no downside - unlike ordinary human loves that do) no matter how often I practice Secret Smile to awaken it. I have to admit I'm pissed hearing this. I did not realize the Tao was so unjust with it's Love-Wisdom or Chi-Vibrations. Whatever. It is what it is. As above...so below.

I am going to attempt something I've never done before. Live for 3 months without opinions. It occurred to me that I don't know what I am without them. Read the news - opinions lurk. Read Taobums - opinions lurk. Watch people's behavior where ever I go - there opinions spring to life. When asked about something I'm always forthcoming with an opinion. Hell...message boards are HORDED stores of opinions from him, her, you, me...everybody. Who are we without them? No matter what they are - opinions first and foremost are filters. I am tired of filters. I want to find out what I am without them and not just be the opinion-animal humanity is.

In terms of your last sentence, would you expound further? Examples? Are you saying that the internal (true nature) always matches the external actions? ralis Hmm... good question. Well...assuming I'm understanding Gurdjieff properly (admittedly a big assumption) then I'd say yes. It's weird though because Gurdjieff often stressed what one actually needs in order to attain Awakening may not be at all what we think we see we need. So sometimes he could be exceedingly nasty and ugly-tempered to a student for example. But it was always with a purpose. If he was mean and ugly-tempered it was to "shock" that student into "awakening" to all that student's own hidden triggers, conditioning, pre-suppositions and prejudices, etc. As an example: One time, to a lady who was being overly fawning of him as a Guru he told her to pick up a bowl. She ended up burning her hands as the bowl was scalding hot. Not a very nice teacher, eh? But he had surmised this particular woman needed a physically damaging, nasty shock to hit her Centers and Awake that held her in vice grip. They kept her from really seeing what was going on - both with herself and Gurdjieff (as I understood the lesson). In other words...Gurdjieff had no problem whatsoever displaying behavior that I've no doubt most people on this board would find reprehensible - *if* - such behavior was what was needed to jolt that student from being "asleep". Now people who have not attained at least to the same level as Gurdjieff won't be aware of all the reasons why he took such an extreme form of teaching. What I noticed: Santi, NewDawnFades, Lino and GoldisHeavy's behavior in the KAP thread could possibly be covered by the above Gurdjieffian teaching methods. Not always do they reply nice, kindly, generously, charitably or with loving-kindness. Now notice one's own reaction AS IT IS HAPPENING when reading their posts. That split-second reaction is a 3D "in the round" snapshot of the true state of one's Being. But a student first has to be watching himself/herself in a particular way to even see it. And as I understand it - Gurdjieff maintained this kind of constant self-monitoring (I liken it to being similar to Awareness Watching Awareness) is extremely difficult to maintain. He's right. I've been trying to do it for several days and it is a freaking Herculean / Titanic task to stay in this awareness-watching-data-gathering state for more than a few minutes at best. Until I actually tried it I had no idea how difficult it is. I bet it would be difficult to do even for people whom have full-blown awakened Kundalini if they had never practiced it consistently before. I have found it is easy as hell to criticize and oh-so-hard to fight that conditioning and trigger. But in fighting it (on the few occasions I've been successful) I got to see up close and personal just how controlled by an exterior trigger I really am. You saw how I failed to just watch in my prior post - I gave that list. *heavy sigh* It telegraphed the current State of my Being to any and all Awakened individuals whom might be bothering to hang out at TaoBums. In a way Gurdjieff highlighted the weird Twilight Zone Catch-22 I'm caught in. In order to TRULY assess someone's Being (i.e. assess the person who hands out advice) I'd have to have attained a state of Realization higher than them. So in the meantime I admit..I AM going on faith and hope that they KNOW (if I accept their advice) - because I currently don't have the attainment of true realization - that is realization to know from a state of total absence of prior conditioning, unexamined presuppositions and triggers. There is the danger life will end up proving I made a wrong choice. But if I chose well I do believe far more can be attained with the guidance of a teacher than without one.

Cheers and Happy Holidays and New Year to everyone. Especially Dark and his Dark Powers!

OMC, You might see if you can find a library or used bookstore with the following book What's Wrong with Jung I found it gave a lot of food for thought. It is one thing to hear how Jung's theories aren't considered scientifically oriented or backed up by research. It's quite another to actually see someone demonstrate and articulate the many reasons why. Anyhoo...it's a thoughtful and interesting book. Worth checking out if you get the chance.

I have often wondered if what I feel during my KAP exercises qualifies as Chi. Take Secret Smile for example...I feel what I would swear is a trickle of..hmm...some kind of energy circulate. Or take the front of my body. Many times I have this sensation of a "ball of energy" ping ponging back and forth up and down my front torso. Is this Chi? If not then what is it?

Fascinating. I hope to learn too! If it is any interest at all I am discovering that Witch's diet seems to be working for me! I would swear when I do Secret Smile now I 'sense' jing - sex energy also circulating. This is a breakthrough for me. BTW - how does one open up leg meridians and gates?

Marble I love these Tao te Ching posts! This one in particular is one I badly need to remember often. I live so much in my head and lust after information so much it is very easy to forget the wisdom in this chapter.

Um...sure? Is he gone for good or what? Talked to him the other day and for now it appears yes. He's vacated the TaoBums premises. His new wife accomplished what many angry TaoBummers could never do - get him to leave. He might be back someday but never like the mega-poster he once was.