JustARandomPanda

I've heard this herb is supposedly the most potent mind-altering substance yet known (and is used by South American shamans for their visits to spirit realms). I assume that includes the psyche drugs like LSD, etc. Has anyone here ever used it? How is a vision quest/spirit quest/whatever different after taking it than one induced from say...drumming? Are there any places where one can obtain samples of this herb legally?

Interesting. It makes me think of that little inner homunculus Philosophers through the ages have argued about - what makes me, me? Remember Descarte and his solution? I think, therefore I am? What happens when that ol me that identifies as my thoughts thinking "I think, therefore I am" simply fades away. I'm beginning to think maybe that's what is meant by this ego-less state. The part that thinks thoughts and identifies itself as "my" thoughts fades away and what's left is....enlightenment. To put it on a strictly non-spiritual, non-enlightened and purely physiological level I wonder if it's allowing us to bypass the parts of our brain that gives rise to the Ego and instead directly access the parts that are so deep they formed prior to the Frontal Lobe's evolution (the part of the brain that gives rise to Consciousness - the part that knows that we know.)

I second this. Is it still in production? I still want to learn Kunlun, Red Phoenix and whatever else Max teaches but I'd like to do so at the seminars. A DVD would be an instant buy for me.

Can someone provide a link to this additional DVD?

I am curious about why some people maintain that some practices are dangerous. If I understand it correctly Mo Pai is not the only tradition that has restricted access because it's supposedly dangerous. From what I was told Bruce K. Frantzis also restricts a lot because putting it on DVDs or books does not provide enough safeguards for people attempting on their own. I'm not sure if that's true or not. It's only just what I heard. I take the attitude that somewhere, somebody - probably a lot of somebodies individually at different times and places - discovered these assorted practices, etc all on their own. My guess is they did it just by paying attention and letting the Chi, Shen or whatever else they were discovering 'go it's own way' so to speak. Then they just took note of the results. And maybe - like a researcher - tried changing one thing. Presto...another Qi Gong method or Meditation practice or whatnot is born. Perhaps it's similar to what Shamans did (and maybe still do) in traditional clans and tribes. That's what I've been trying to do. While I am practicing Frantzis's and Lam's Standing and Dissolving method and Frantzis Breathing Meditation steps there are times when I just take the attitude of a curious bystander. I start by noticing where ever the Chi seems most noticeable then keep my attention on it and kind of sit back and see what it decides to do or even if it decides to do anything at all. I did this today and noticed something I've never noticed before. It's like there are 2 separate Chi's in me - if that makes any sense. The Chi down my back feels whispy, very cool, gentle, ghostlike. The Chi down my front I feel much more strongly. It feels hot, more 'in your face' and active. Very weird. I would sit here and say maybe my Chi let me feel it's Yin and Yang aspects except what I felt is the opposite of what I read in this thread! Supposedly Yang is down the back and Yin down the front. That's not what I felt. Very odd. Of course I still have many problems from my back injury so perhaps that's why it feels so mixed up. Go figure...

Would that be the same Longmen Pai discussed in this thread?

I've just started this a few days ago. I ordered the matching DVD to go with it as seeing him give such extremely detailed pointers helped me understand the book instructions better. I'm surprised at how difficult the Standing and Dissolving is for me. I can only last five minutes standing then I switch to sitting. And I never would've guessed I was such an uptight, anal retentive person until I started. I'm so uptight everywhere it feels like my muscles are frozen solid. I get the depressed feeling it may be years before I figure out how to dissolve to water...let alone air.

What paths would those be? *is curious*

I watched a Discovery documentary online about the Buddha Boy wherein it's mentioned a Buddhist meditation practice for controlling one's body temperature (among other processes I'm sure). I couldn't make out the name for this practice though I'd swear it sounded like they were saying Toona or something like that. Can anyone direct me to any books and/or websites or DVDs that teach this meditation method?

Just posting a note to say I'm back after a long absence. I've decided to skip Kunlun for now until I can save up enough money to go to one of Max's weekend seminars and learn everything in person. So as of last night I began working through Bruce Frantzis's Book Opening the Energy Gates of your Body and just bought his companion DVD. Which hopefully will get here soon.

Well I wish everyone well if there's a Fee-based Kunlun board. I won't be able to join. I'm unemployed so every penny I have is watched over like a hawk. Best wishes to you all.

What is Shaktipat? Just curious as I've never heard of it till now. ******* Update: I think *maybe* I experienced a tiny bit of this ol' Bliss people keep saying Kunlun can sometimes give. Yesterday I made a point to see if I could relax even more than usual. It's not easy being totally relaxed because on some level most of the time I'm always aware of at least some pain. Despite that out of curiosity I wanted to see if I could really empty my mind of everything but trying to relax everywhere like a rag doll - even the areas of my back, shoulders and neck that have pain. I succeeded but what surprised me is for the barest whisps of 1-2 seconds I felt this gentle feeling of..hmm...it wasn't bliss. Bliss connotes - at least to me - a strong, unmistakable ecstatically happiness. This was more like a feeling of mirth. Mirth and cheeriness? Yeah...cheeriness. These flashes of cheeriness only lasted maybe 1-2 seconds and then I'd lose it. I noticed feeling it seemed linked to when I was most successful at relaxing everything. Not just my body - up to and including the areas I normally feel pain - but also when I relaxed and quieted my mind. Which was difficult. But if I managed to pull those 2 off at the same time - that's when I'd get that 1-2 seconds of cheeriness. The frustrated-scientist-wanna-be in me was rather fascinated at this combo and I can't help but think how I wished I could've been hooked up to a PET scan and EKG and a host of other devices just to see what changes are visible in a brain that's experiencing this state. I'd especially want to volunteer because I'm curious as to why these particular positions activate it? I mean really...why the Kunlun positions? What's so special about raising the heals and arms just so? What's going on in the body so that it supposedly accelerates a process that most Awareness Traditions (whether Qi Gong, Taoist, Buddhist, Tantra, etc) also strive to achieve? Not to mention - why does it have to be relaxing the body and the mind at the exact same moment for me to experience that cheeriness? And why would it be cheerfulness that's experienced and not some other emotion or even no emotion at all? See...the fact that such a state activates when those two conditions are met makes me wonder if a "Dark Kunlun" also exists that could be activated and I just haven't stumbled upon the oddball position and state of mind to give rise to the opposite of bliss (terror?). If I had Bill Gates' money I'd probably hire a research firm to do some double-blind studies to look into it. *shrug*

I definitely have to put a good word in for Marrena's (Witch) book. It will make you more..um...frisky though. So if you're trying to do 100 days celibacy you might want to hold off on the diet until that part is over. Though the book was written primarily for women the diet works for men too. I did read one caveat for women on her board however. She said medical research shows women who've been on the Pill for many years sometimes end up with permanently suppressed testosterone as a result. Testosterone production never bounces back even after taking the Pill has stopped. And of course low testosterone = no libido. That's the one weak link in the chain in the diet. It does a spectacular job of suppressing SHBG and boosting dopamine vis-a-vis seratonin. But if your testosterone is low there is nothing in her diet that can fix it. You'll have to go on testosterone therapy from a physician to get that part right again. There is also a slight tweak I'd say one might try to improve on her diet. If you can't afford to take so many fish oil or krill oil capsules (krill oil is actually more concentrated with EPA/DHA than fish oil and just as pure) - or if you're worried about taking so much of it - you can try taking slightly fewer capsules but take some plant lignan capsules with them. Medical studies show plant lignans (in this case sesame lignans) taken at the same time boosted the concentration of EPA/DHA absorbed into the bloodstream from fish/krill oil capsules.

It's simple. Because women don't experience the physical sensation of needing to get off unless they go on Witch's Orgasmic Diet. Once I went on her diet I noticed the difference in a hurry. It was a totally new physical experience. For the first time ever I felt a physical sensation - a physical pulsing - need to get off. Never in my life had I experienced it before. I'm convinced Marrena Lindberg (Witch) is right. It's a biochemical/physiological thing. Without it you don't have the body compelling you with the desire or need to lose control like that. It was a very 'yang' experience for me. Very disconcerting. Especially feeling that way at work and finding it extremely distracting to whatever tasks I needed to get done. I remember thinking in shock, "My god. Is this what MEN go through?" and then laughing, "OMG, yes it is." When your body doesn't compel you with that need it's easier to find a stopping point. I suppose only men who've lost their libido and their free testosterone are likely to really know what I'm talking about of what women usually experience though.

Well I do surrender during practice. I make a point to do my best at never trying to guide or control it or desire a certain effect in any way whether consciously or subconsciously since everyone keeps saying that will prevent Kunlun from doing whatever it would otherwise do. I just wonder why it is everyone is making so much fast progress (within a few sessions!) of entering this enlightened Taoist awareness. Here I remain just seeing mostly a few simple body movements - which has certainly never been even remotely enlightening or Taoist Aware. The things I experience are fun no doubt. It's just not really why I was attracted to Qi Gong or Kunlun. I keep reading everyone having this wonderful Enlightened Taoist Breakthrough and feel shut out of the party everyone else is in on. Edit: As an example: I started Kunlun in November. Leo in December. Yet he's achieved Bliss Enlightenment and I have not. Go figure.

Thank you for the kind words. Desiring Bliss Spiritual Enlightenment is part of why I even bother to do this. If I didn't want what Kunlun offers I'd find other things to do with my time.

Lucky Leo. I've never yet experienced this supposed Bliss that leads to greater enlightenment and spiritual well-being. Sometimes I feel like a failure. All the moreso since women supposedly have a much easier time of attaining Bliss Spiritual Enlightment than men. I've already done 100 days of celibacy and then some. I have no partner and haven't been with anyone for over 2 years. You'd think that'd count for something in helping me toward my spiritual goals.

According to White Tigress/Jade Dragon Qi Gong you are correct. There is an entire female lineage in Taiwan that teaches a female oriented Sexual Kung Fu. Most Sexual Kung Fu is more oriented toward men than women. Part of White Tigress Qi Gong teaches how to absorb the essence of men and use it to add to one's own Chi vitality for health, beauty and other benefits. I find it fascinating to read of the difference in Sexual Kung Fu exercises when the audience is primarily female rather than male. I think since women have more Yin to start with the Sexual Qi Gong exercises men use are not needed or need to be done a different way by women. Kind of like how Max says men need 100 days of celibacy yet women don't. You can read little bit about White Tigress Qi Gong at The White Tigress Society. [i still hope Mantra can clarify for me if I need to be concerned about Kunlun diminishing my libido. I love Kunlun and would miss it. But it sucks having no libido either. I don't know which is worse.] p.s. I do not direct or force Kunlun in any way. Rather it directs me.

I am halting all Kunlun practice unless or until I hear from Mantra. If what I'm told is true - losing libido and orgasmic ability is a sign of bad health in TCM and Kunlun is making things much worse. I don't just feel the gentle sensual energy others are posting here about. My libido DIES after each Kunlun session. There is NONE. I'm Sexually dead after Kunlun.

Why is that not a good sign? Is it a sign I should be scared of? I am stopping Kunlun right now. Can someone explain to me what it is a sign of and why it's bad? Mantra in particular...I need your help. Please...tell me why this is bad. Is Kunlun hurting me?

Really? What Qi Gong Traditions teach this? I always read that leaving Chi in one's head is very dangerous. After my Kunlun during meditation I try to make at least a portion of that time focus on a point a bit below my navel for added safety.

Interesting. I've noticed the complete opposite. Lately Kunlun is reducing some of the libido and orgasm inducing effects of Witch's (Marena Lindberg's) Orgasmic Diet that I'm following. Right after Kunlun my libido and ability to orgasm takes a major nose dive. I have to take a day off and boost fish oil, zinc/magnesium intake and eliminate almost all carbs to get my libido back.

I'm just a noob and haven't gotten far. I was just beginning in these books when I discovered Kunlun. Now I'm focusing only 1. and 2. from my list for the moment. 1. Kunlun 2. Marena Lindberg's (aka Zaneblue's aka Witch's) The Orgasmic Diet [i'm one of the women quoted in her book. This diet also helps opens chakra channels in some people] 3. Bruce Frantzis' Opening the Energy Gates of the Body & Relaxing into Being 4. Saida Desilet's Emergence of the Sensual Woman (Saida was a Chia student) 5. The Sexual Teachings of the White Tigress

Why are you taking a break Cam? I've enjoyed your posts. I wish you would reconsider. Has someone made you feel unwelcome here?