henro

Possibly because they learned the techniques from actual teachers, not from books and the internet, and they made it one part of entire life practice - meditation, qigong, diet, tai ji, etc.

Had to repost this, as it it my experience as well. You must have a a qualified teacher, and have a very deep practice. Reading books, and bits off the internet can be dangerous. I was thinking when I read the original post - I'd love to do a study in 10, 20, and 30 year increments to follow men doing retention practices to see who had great health, how may now had prostrate problems, and how many had permanently injured themselves.

One of my teachers has spent a lot of time in Egypt doing research, and he often talks about ancient Egyptian art depicting quite a few poses that look like tai ji...... With some quick research on the net I've dug up pictures that look a lot like "presenting the pi pa" and other Yang style tai ji poses. I have no idea, but it's an interesting theory.....

I thought he started this thread to prove that Qi only means breath, not energy..... from his first post: Yet 12 pages later he says: My mandarin is still quite basic, but I am learning so I'll get there eventually. All the classic literature I have seen, and translated, and every Chinese teacher I have refers to Qi as many different things including breath, and energy, and even farting.... and my wife, who's been Chinese since birth refers to Qi as energy, breath, the activity of the body, and organs, and the energetic vibration of all things in the universe.

The thread has kind of moved sideways from Chidragon's initial assertion that Qi is breath, and breath only, and that Qigong is only working with breath. The idea that qigong could be done without any specific breath work was only used as an example to refute his claims.

Brilliant post !!!!!

Once again, didn't the whole temple tai chi and Waysun Liao thing get exposed as BS? Run a quick google search and see what comes up, the bullshido guys have had a field day with him.......

What is qi revolution ?? I've seen the ads for it but it looks like an exercise they created and called qigong. Anyone have any info on this practice ?? http://qirevolution.com/

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18824-qi-revolution-seminars/page__p__264915__hl__%20qi%20revolution__fromsearch__1entry264915 http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/8757-jeff-primack/

#1 - Tonify the kidneys through herbs and acupuncture #2 - Cultivate the post-natal essence which supports the pre-natal. What you eat, drink, and breathe. . . #3 - Cultivation practices - qigong, tai ji, etc.

check it out: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/17167-prenatal-jing-and-chi-how-to-cultivate-it/page__hl__jing

Absolutely, I just wanted to clear out what appeared to be a semantic issue. . .

I think what some people are calling shen here is the spirit, as satya ram has described. But others, especially when they speak of vitality are talking about the shen stored in the heart as in Chinese medicine. According to Chinese medicine the heart manifests in the face, and that's where the blood circulation comes in as others have mentioned. If someone comes in with pale complexion, and pale lips we might consider Heart Blood Deficiency depending on the other symptoms. Further if they're having palpitations, insomnia, or vivid dreams we would draw the conclusion that the heart blood deficiency is disturbing the shen, and prescribe points and herbs to address this - nourishing the heart blood, and calming the shen. 神 shen, 2nd tone, - spirit, can be all five of the zang organs spirit combined - hun in the liver, yi in the spleen, zhi in the kidneys, po in the lungs, and shen in the heart.

Messing with nature not so good. . . There's a story about a popular yogi in India. . . . he and his students were practicing outside when rain clouds started to move in. He had siddhi's that allowed him to affect the weather. So he made the clouds pass without a drop of rain, and all the students were impressed and happy. Not long after a farmer came to him, and said "did you do that?", and he said "yes, I wanted to protect my students and allow them to continue their practice". Soon more farmers showed up, and explained to him that their crops will be affected, the land needed the rain. Of course, one would hope that everyone is safe, but fires are a natural part of the environment here in the southwest.

and notice that testosterone levels continue to drop through day 16. it would be interesting to see what happens over the course of a year. If it ever comes back up, or if the body, in use it or lose it mode, keeps dropping the level. Non, perhaps in your desire to practice retention you've thrown yourself into chemical imbalance ??

And more importantly, do they (KAP) have any science on this, is it a historical lineage thing, Chinese or Ayurvedic text, or is it something they just came up with ??

The controversy with Chia seems to stem from two trains of thought - the first being that his system is a conglomeration of many practices, and for some, where did these practices come from ? The second issue, and probably the most written about, is the injury some people have caused themselves by reading books about Taoist sexual practices, and attempting these practices without a teacher or doing any of the basic foundation work. I don't think either of these issues invalidates Chia's system as a whole or any of the individual practices, especially where those practices existence and effectiveness can be verified elsewhere.

I've looked at Mantak Chia's stuff, and a little bit of Clyman's, and both kind of turned me off for different reasons. . . I certainly didn't feel that Clyman had any authority over Chia or should be passing judgement about another qigong teacher's practices. That being said, the Healing Sounds meditation (and many others presented by Chia) show up in other lineages, specifically Hua Ching Ni's. We learned the healing sounds in my medical qigong classes at Yo San.

I see the benefits of spontaneous movement, and letting the body guide the form. I had the good fortune to work with a monk in the mountains of China doing spontaneous tai ji several years ago, and it was incredible. . . . but, there is a point to some forms, and prescribed movements - and especially yoga asana. The time spent in a posture or going through a form is often required to help the practitioner burn through the stuff going on in their head (quiet the monkey mind), some say to burn through karma, or even just to experience the physical process of muscle exhaustion. Some famous yoga teacher said you're not doing yoga until you hold the postures for at least 3 minutes. I kind of hold that thought when I don't feel like doing the right number of repetitions in my qigong. So my thought would be to allow your body to guide the movement, but make sure you are conscious of the changes. Are you just doing it because you're bored, don't like the movement, or don't like what it brings up ????

See a Chinese medicine doctor. . . . possibly a sign of yin deficiency, but that will depend on any other symptoms.

This thread is like having deja vu and amnesia at the same time. Haven't we seen this movie before ??? http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/18562-the-answer-lies-in-the-indianepaltibet-himalaya-regions-afterall-and-definitely-not-in-chinataiwan/page__hl__himalayas BOL (Tulka), do you work for the SEA tourism board ?

I could care less what Dawkins thinks of Taoism or if Taoism becomes more popular or relevant. Nor would I try to defend it, whatever "it" is, especially if someone were to try to attack "it". The Tao exists whether anyone on this board or in the general public agrees with it or not.

Do we need two threads about Dawkins ? And what does this have to do with Taoism ??

I was just thinking the same thing. Welcome back BOL

No apologies needed. Great post, and I completely agree. There are so many deep energy practices discussed on these forums that really need to be approached with reverence, and with a qualified teacher. I personally feel that awakening kundalini is one of them. Pursuing it without a solid foundation, and cleaning your "house", can be a dangerous pursuit.