henro

One could easily make the same argument for those reading their religious text in anything but the original language and form -Christian, Judaism, Buddhism, etc.

Kirkland's paper is extremely dated at this point. Though I understand his assumptions, which western taoists did he interview to form this opinion ? Did he just pick up Tao te ching translations at B. Dalton to form his opinions ? Has he spent time in China speaking with various taoist sects there ? Did he interview lay-practitioners from both China and the USA ? Why would anyone but a fundamentalist believe that someone is less of a Taoist, Christian, or Muslim if they don't follow every orthodox rule set out in their respective scriptures ? Is someone less of a Christian if they concentrate on just one of the books of the bible and meditate on God and his teachings daily ? Where do you draw the line ? Hell, most Chinese don't even know what Taoism is about. . . .

I would tend to agree with Twinner as that has been my experience in China and America as well. Modern or neo-taoists, and I would include most western taoists that I have met, studying the philosophical, and cultivation aspects, lay practitioners in China following more of the folk aspects of taoist worship, and then of course monks, nuns, and hermits with all kinds of different practices. My experience has been quite different. I've visited and stayed on many Taoist mountains, and monasteries, and the variety of practices I've found has been pretty amazing. Some just meditate, and cultivate, others participate in all the worship aspects, and some just take care of the people around them. I wouldn't consider any of these people less of a Taoist simply because they don't practice a complete system.

I definitely read old threads as I'm very new to TTB's. . . it's also very frustrating to find threads wherein many of the posts have been deleted. I look at the forums as a rich resource for research when I come across a new teacher or practice or have questions about my own practice. As for how I intend my posts to be read, I simply don't post anything I wouldn't want someone to read in the future.

And as I turn 41 next week, I also appreciate the perspective.

Can I ask what school are you at ?

Ask him how a man can retain essence if he's servicing multiple wives ?

Is your professor Chinese ? And if so, when was the last time he was there ? How old ? It hasn't been a "tradition" since the communists took over. And before that, it was mostly the extremely wealthy that had multiple wives. In some cultures women take more than one husband, in others it's the reverse. One of my tai ji teacher's brothers had 5 or 6 wives, and my kung fu teacher talks about one of the wealthier people he knew growing up in China having 12 wives. No reason to get upset, there are customs all over the world that would make many of us depressed, and disgusted. Not much we can do about that. Approach them with compassion, and try to understand to the best of your ability. Then let it go. . .

Without knowing your constitution, it might be difficult to bail on western society, and move to a developing country to spend significant time in isolation. I'd suggest a couple things. 1). Look at retreats here in the states. Such as: http://diamondmountain.org/retreat/ http://ymaa-retreatcenter.org/about/dr_yang 2). Look into visiting China with someone like Michael Winn. His trips are 2-3 week excursions where you can get an overview of several Taoist mountains with translators, and guides. Provides a good foundation for future trips on your own. I went with him in 2006, and again in 2008. I've been back many times in the last couple years on my own with relative ease thanks to his introductions. http://www.healingtaousa.com/chinatrip2011.html 3). Pilgrimage. Look into some of the longer pilgrimages around the world, and see if any resonate with you. I walked the Shikoku pilgrimage in Japan about 1.5 years ago, and it was truly incredible. You're not completely shutting out the world, there's an end point, and you can walk as fast or slow as you want.

Have you done any retreats or pilgrimages before ? Where in the "east" have you traveled ? Foreign languages spoken ? What type of practice do you have now ? These are all kind of important. . .

I don't know about actually reversing the aging process on a DNA level, but I know some tai ji practitioners who look remarkably young for their age. I certainly look better/younger than I did ten years ago, and I attribute that completely to spiritual cultivation. . . Someone doesn't have to be a master to receive the benefits of inner work. Besides, there are entirely too many people running around with "master" attached to their names.

And this is so important when it comes to Chinese as a language and culture. I'm married to a Chinese girl, and I'm learning to speak Chinese along with my studies of martial arts, and Chinese medicine. Every word and phrase can take on different meanings depending on the context. Add to that all the dialects, regions of the country, the rise and fall of dynasty's, family and sect secrets, and the turmoil of the last 80 years and you've only begun to scratch the surface of actually translating the language.

I would agree with what everyone here says, all great recommendations. If you sign up for Winn's newsletter you get the free Inner Smile book as well. I would also stress the necessity of a live teacher. Find a way, forego some of the books to pay for lessons, fast once a week, get rid of the cellphone. If you can't afford it regularly find some workshops in your area. You might even look to community yoga classes that have a meditation concentration, they're usually cheaper than normal classes. Also, some buddhist and taoist teachers hold meditations for free or on a donation basis.

I agree. Personally I practice a southern style kung fu in addition to my tai ji, and qigong. I find the three completely support each other, and I tend to pick up things, and learn more than other students who are only focused on one form. It's worth experimenting to see how you can implement the mix. I've also read various teachers doing one form in the morning, and a another at night. Or using one system for their meditative practices, and another for movement. As long as they're not fighting each other you should have no problem. Bruce Frantzis mentions using bagua or tai ji on different days depending on what you're trying to cultivate and how your body feels.

I'm in school studying Chinese Medicine right now so my pile is pretty big. On top of the chemistry, and anatomy textbooks I'm reading, this is my bedside stack: The Yellow Emperor's Classic, translated by Maoshing Ni Workbook of Spiritual Development, Hua Ching Ni Chinese Herbal Medicine, Bensky Chinese Herbology, Chen Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion (CAM) Not for school: Bagua and Tai Chi, Bruce Frantzis The Great stillness, Bruce Frantzis And I'm always purchasing and researching a larger stack of books to be read. . . . I just bought Wolfe Lowenthal's "Long River", "Gung Gee Fook Fu", "The Tiger Crane Form", and "Hung Gar" by Buck Sam Kong. And a few rare books by Lam Sai Wing. My wishlist on Amazon is currently at 76 books

it's all very disappointing for people who just want to study with Master Wang Liping. . . . it's difficult to want to enter such a confusing, and negative scenario.

My understanding was that the translator was paid by the students per diem, i.e. depending on how much time they spend with the group. So the cost might be different than quoted. Thus, the $3600, plus the cost of translator to be paid at the conclusion of the seminar. Again, that's what I read on one of the pages associated with the retreats. Just trying to look at the bright side, I don't know any of the people involved. . .

Tianshi, how much of that was borrowed from Buddhism, and was not part of the early practices of Taoism ? I think that's what YM is getting at.

No, the hate began long before Sarah Palin. . . It wasn't long ago that someone shot and killed JFK, then his brother, and MLK. Then less than 20 years later took a shot at Reagan. Hell, some lunatic even killed John Lennon. . . Fast forward to the protesters throwing crap at Bush #2's car on the way to his inauguration, and the huge amount of hate literature published, totally unprecedented btw, during Bush's tenure. I can't stand either side, bunch of hypocrites. No Sarah Palin didn't create the hate, she's just the Paris Hilton for the right wing.

I looked through my references and couldn't find any info on moxa increasing pre-natal jing. Do you have a reference for that ? That would be some great info to have !!! Moxa is supposed to "penetrate into the muscles, tendons, and bones to activate qi and blood circulation, and warms the peripheral channels and collaterals" (Chen, Chinese Medical Herbology and Pharmacology) I have also heard from one of my qigong teachers that dual cultivation can restore jing, but I have never seen another reference to that so I hesitate to offer that up.

In Chinese medicine we say that you can't get more jing. You can only protect it, conserve it, use it more slowly. All of that can be done with the practices listed above. Check out this site for some info: http://www.sacredlotus.com/theory/substances/jing.cfm

I think those are fair observations. And as each generation of students begins to teach, one might require many teachers to find the entirety of a given system or way of living.... As an example, my kung fu teacher is an incredible fighter and forms teacher, but he rarely ever talks about qi or the medicinal benefits. My tai ji teacher often talks about energy and flow but never about meditation, and my qigong teachers talk about energy and meditation techniques but rarely integrate them into my TCM studies. So for me it takes several teachers to learn the full breadth of what I consider essential to my development.

It would be interesting to know what kind of practices these people had, and for how long. And what their life was like before they began their practice. Though I sometimes feel I don't really belong here (Los Angeles for reference) that in no way impedes my practice or my pursuit of happiness or relationships.

Exactly Astral, it sounds like many people find themselves in Xypher's state of mind. Why did I do this? Everything was perfect in my state of ignorant bliss. . . Love the rest of your post !! The average Joe on the street watches MTV and Entourage and thinks that's what he supposed to strive for. It ain't so, and a serious practice, be it yoga, sitting meditation or movement (tai ji, baguam, etc), will quickly point this out to you.

I don't know that I would change your diet in any major way. That would be more taxing on the body than anything else. Continuing eating the way you have, assuming you have a healthy diet, and see a Chinese medicine doctor about herbs that would help the healing process. You might also ask about herbal wraps or other topical ointments that might also help the healing process and prevent stagnation.