henro

I'm studying to be a Chinese medicine doctor. Masters first, then a phd program. . . Here's a link to a paper on heart hormone secretions: http://www.touchcardiology.com/articles/natriuretic-peptides-a-review

Which is dangerous considering how many times science is just plain wrong or later revises itself. . . . My anatomy teacher was just telling us about a study that concluded a part of the heart actually produces hormones (hmm, that wasn't part of the endocrine system when I was in high school), and my Chinese medicine professor (also an MD) was talking about Chinese research that verifies concepts that the mind/spirit may be aided by different parts of the body . . . .

I love that !!!! Might have to borrow it

Well Blacksword, it is expensive. It might be interesting to know how much the hotels, meals, and transportation actually cost so one would understand how much is going towards the learning experience. A VERY good Western style hotel in China typically costs about $80-150 USD per day. Factor in meals, again high end, maybe $50 per day (but that's stretching it), transportation (maybe 500RMB each way), extras - you're probably looking at $1500 - $2300 in actual cost. That only leaves about $1500 for the teachings. Still expensive, but consider that something like KAP is $500 for a two day workshop, $700 if you register the day of. Transcendental Meditation courses are $1500 per level. Ouch, it costs so much these days to find enlightenment Personally, I'm looking for a way to study with Master Wang Liping. I'm a student right now but working full time on top of that. I hope to get to one of his trainings this year!!

Pretty sure that includes hotel, and food. Plane ticket and visa up to you. . .

A friend of mine just told me about a local qigong master who has quite a bit of power, but he didn't remember the name. So he sends me the info in an email and it turns out to be Zhou. My friend also said he felt healed by this guy, and recommends him very highly. . . . Maybe Zhou does have some actual skills but feels the need to pull off magic tricks due to insecurity or the need to impress Westerners ??

Hmm, not sure about all that. China's pretty good about sticking parks every where they can. . . .

This thread is going nowhere, and is putting Master Wang Liping, his students and members of this forum in an ugly place. If you don't want to go to the retreat, then don't. If you don't believe he has anything to teach you then ignore the threads. Why is it necessary to chastise him and his students in a public forum. Is that what the Tao teaches you ? And if you are his student, you are doing him a disservice by acting like this.

If you were in a country where most of your potential partners would rather go to a maid cafe, stay out all night with their friends smoking and drinking at a hostess bar, or read manga would you be into sex ?

Yeah, except that many of us are on this path because we recognize that the masters who came before us were able to find something that we're searching for. And we hope that by following in their footsteps we can get there in a reasonable amount of time with as few setbacks as possible. The teachings, the forms, meditation techniques, and mantra are time tested at this point. Will they work for everyone, no, but when something resonates with you it's worth investing the time. I look at mewtwo like a young jazz musician who's stuck in classical music theory class. He's having trouble understanding why he has to study four part chorale writing, Bach, string quartets, etc. But suddenly the Romantic period comes up and he sees the beauty and depth of all that theory, and his own compositions explode. Now there are musicians who can create greatness without all that theory, just as there are spontaneous qigong masters, but the vast majority of us need and want to learn the theories behind the past masters before we can begin to create our own forms or masterpieces. And in this case, not knowing the theory can actually hurt you or someone trying to emulate you. Now I did meet a taoist master in China who had no real formal qigong training. He would stand at the edge of a cliff in the morning, feel the wind and the sun, and begin an amazing spontaneous movement set. Looked like tai chi, bagua, and xing yi. We spent a couple mornings together and he would teach me what he was feeling, where the movement was coming from. He explained the elements and we talked a lot about my own practice. It definitely worked for him, and it did help my tai chi. But I'm not sure you could take anyone off the street and achieve those results without spending time in seclusion, being alone on the mountain, and convening with nature in an intimate way.

Sure, with enough practice you could push qi where ever you want through the body. But why not learn about the proper alignment and exercises that allow qi to flow naturally ? Some would say you have to learn that first before you can manipulate qi.

The most simple explanation is that the physical form, the external movements, affect the movement of internal energy. Facing the palms down during arm movements might affect the yang channels of the arms, while facing them up might stimulate the yin channels. As the arms spread or rise they might open the chest or underarms affecting the heart meridian. In yang style tai chi you keep the fingers straight with the thumb extended, while in Chen the thumb is not extended. These differences affect energy in the palm (pericardium 8). Even where the eyes are focused will affect your energy. That's just a few examples but I hope you get the idea.

I'm hoping to go this year. If not in april, the next one. . .

This is an ongoing discussion amongst my friends and some teachers (I'm currently studying TCM). My thoughts are that one can not truly understand Chinese medicine without an understanding of Chinese language and culture. Sure you can get it to work, the theory is sound, and most people can grasp the concepts without going too deep. I personally think there is something lost in the translation of the textbooks, and the misunderstanding of Chinese characters. Qi is a perfect example. It's such a deep concept with so many Western translations. You have to understand the context within which it is used to understand it's intended meaning at any given time. As an example, look up the pinyin for bi(4): http://www.chinaorb.com/index.php You'll get over 80 translations depending on character and tone. How can we begin to translate that effectively ? In TCM we use it describe pain caused by obstruction. But it could mean paralysis, numbness, and more. . . I would further suggest, and this may piss some people off, that to truly understand spiritual cultivation from the Chinese perspective (i.e. Chinese internal practices) you really need to dive into Chinese language and culture. That's not to say you can't have great success without doing that, but the doors really open up for you once you commit to that deeper understanding.

I agree with the above, find a teacher, use the books as a supplement to what you learn in actual classes. I would also recommend Barry Spendlove as well if you are in Wales, we were on a China trip together a few years ago with Michael Winn. He is a wonderful person, and a true character !!

Great post !!!!! Especially this bit:

I once heard a visiting Swami at my yoga school say that astrology is basically just math, and the outcome is only as accurate as the mathematician. I kind of like that explanation.

Just a couple ideas. .. Any thoughts on how you would adapt forms designed for a double edged blade to a single edged sword ? Further, if holding the blade during different cuts stimulates meridians and affects qi in different ways doesn't altering the form to work with the single edged blade alter the energetic intent of the form ? what don't you like about tai ji swords ?

I'm in school now studying TCM. The main text we use are these: http://www.amazon.com/Manual-Acupuncture-Peter-Deadman/dp/0951054651/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1294021620&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Chinese-Acupuncture-Moxibustion-Third-2010/dp/7119059947/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1294021644&sr=8-1 http://www.amazon.com/Foundations-Chinese-Medicine-Comprehensive-Acupuncturists/dp/0443074895/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1294021661&sr=8-3 One of the frustrating aspects of learning Chinese medicine is the inconsistency of points and meridian locations in all the different text. Everyone seems to have a little different take on things. I'm building a pretty big library so I can cross-reference everything as I learn. . . I'll keep looking to see if there are any references to all the meridians meeting there. Off hand, certain meridians, like the heart, don't go anywhere near bai hui. Even their internal, divergent or luo-connecting pathways do not go there. Here's some additional info on bai hui from the Deadman text: bai hui is the meeting point of all yang qi of the body (notice it doesn't say yang meridians). Also named Sanyangwuhui (three yang five meetings) as it is the meeting point of the governing vessel with the 3 yang channels of the bladder and gall bladder, and san jiao. Also called niwangong (mud ball palace) in qigong theory. Refers to the material aspect of the spirit located in the brain. Can sometimes be considered the upper dantien. Has also been called Tianshan (mountain of heaven), and Guimen (Ghost gate). ..

Start taking classes near you until you find someone and someplace that you like. That's really the only way. . .

Kundalini yoga is great for opening all your channels(nadis), increasing your flexibility, and learning different breathing and meditation techniques. Many people practice it without ever truly raising their kundalini. For me, Kundalini yoga has been the most complete yoga I have found. It's the one yoga I have practiced that seamlessly integrates asana, breath, and mantra. It has helped that I had a solid foundation in hatha before taking kundalini yoga classes as the asana are often sacrificed with certain teachers.

Interesting to hear you say that, it's actually the first time I've heard anyone say that there is "kundalini yoga" in India. Not that there aren't yogas meant to raise kundalini, but that there was anyone practicing what they would call kundalini yoga. . . As far as YB and his teachers, they do claim that there is kundalini yoga in India, but I've never encountered it in any of my travels in India, or could verify it's existence with any other yoga teacher either here in the states or in India. Regardless, we're very much in agreement about the whole thing, including the cult-like aspects, though I find that mostly with the older teachers who knew him personally. The new generation of kundalini practitioners (including myself) seem to take the practice for what it's worth, and have dismissed the cultishness.

I would definitely look at the websites I posted above for teacher references. You need to find someone that makes sense to you. Try a bunch of classes and see who and what works.

There was no actual practice called "kundalini yoga" until Yogi Bhajan took the yoga and meditation practices he learned as a child in India, formalized them into a system, and attached them to his Sikh practices. That is what we now call Kundalini Yoga. There are of course other practices that raise your kundalini, but they are not part of this formalized system. When you practice kundalini yoga as taught by Yogi Bhajan there are many sikh mantras. They are very powerful, and any good teacher will tell you that you do not have to be sikh to receive the benefit. My teachers in L.A. emphasize that you should maintain your own belief system (Judaism, Christianity, etc.), and that the mantra only serve to open up energy centers.

Quick correction. .. somewhere up there it says that Bai hui (GV20) is the meeting place of all the Yang Meridians. All of my textbooks say something different: Bai hui is the Intersecting Point of the Governing Vessel, Urinary Bladder, Gall Bladder, Triple Heater & Liver Channels. Da zhui (GV-14) located between C7 and T1 is the meeting place of the six yang channels of the hand and foot.