juju

Oh ralis, oh vaj, I love it. It really, really makes my day to see you boxing hard and harder. It is a marvelous thread to study male behaviour And ok, I have to admit that ralis makes me laugh far more. Sorry Vaj. But Ralis seems to be far more easily annoyed (I could not find a translation for my favourite word) and is so nicely predictable (well, the two of you are - like two spanish bulls; one a little bit more spanish may be, the other one a little more north-european). Thanks for making me constantly laugh. Great thread - go on. I really do not know what I would do without it (PS: And yes - there are as well some very interesting points of view and discussion themes inside. Thanks for that as well!)

Thanks a lot for sharing. It feels like your post will be quite helpful soon. It is very good to know that one can and will continue to tidy up the underneath stuff, even when realizing more the non-existing-self.

In my opinion and personal experience: A belief system helps. It surely is nothing than a system. But as we are not yet able to look beyond the system (at least I am not), we need it. It is kind of a ladder which helps to go on the top of a house. Once we are on the roof, we can drop it. And regarding the topic: I think this topic is very funny. I personally think VJ puts things very much to the point. I do not see him as fanatic. He writes his opinion, his experiences. Which mostly for me are very interesting. Maybe - to make this more clear, and thus the ideas in his posts more easy to digest - he (and everybody else) could post every single time: in my personal, very very humble, tiny opinion But writing personal opinions is anyway what everybody in here does. That is what a forum is for. And really: I personally feel VJ far less fanatic than some others. Have a beautiful day

sure I start to be tired of writing and thinking so much in English Have a great day!

Of course I wish you all those things like immediate wisdom and freedom. No doubt about that. I like those wishes! If you find the way to go there in an instant - I am very very very happy for you!!! Maybe you are far stronger than I can understand. But I have the impression you fight. You need to underline your strength. Which in my tiny opinion is the opposite of being free. I just wished you something which in my experience is very helpful. As it opens, as it gives a different strength. I basically just wished you that you might be able to stop fighting and to be completely, absolutely happy and free. Which is what you asked me for. The rest is nothing than one possibility to arrive there - and it comes on its own, whatever is suited for you at this point. But: As you argue so much, and with such an intensity against all "authorities", against teachers and of course even more about Gurus - I have this slight idea that this is what you are looking for. Deep inside. Somewhere. And if it might be so - then I wish you might find it. If this is not your way... ok.

I answer quickly No, practice can not be the final goal. It just leads to what is called enlightenment. And I hope it will lead there the soon as possibile For sure it leads every day to more easiness, bliss, non-attachment, less anger and so on. Easy example: If I do not trust my doctor, it will be hard for him to help me. Maybe I follow some of his advices - but I always will search for an easy way out. Only eat vegetables every second day, instead of every day as he might have told me.... It can help - but not as much as when I do trust him. I do not say anything against friends. And a Guru is not my dom, neither am I his sub. He is as well a friend. And we were quite often sitting together when he is not sitting on a throne - neither literally nor metaphorically. He is more humble than most of the people I do know. Yes, he left many teaching, many advice and sure he is with us. But he still is a being who does not have a human, touchable body. no. But I do not see this conflict with authority you see. And I do not feel submissive. Then we agree. As a guru is nothing else than a teacher. And I can have a drink and a laugh with my teacher. Anyway: My liking cannot be the issue. If it was my liking, then nobody could teach me. Because I do not like to get rid of my ignorance, my stuck emotions. It hurts. But once I passed through - all this bullshit is just gone. But yet I do not think that you could be the one who is able to lead me through this. Maybe I am wrong and you really know so many things - but as I do not believe that, there is not a real chance for you to help me. Yes. By simply watching him, seeing how he behaves, how he is in his everyday-life, how he handles all those situations coming up. Maybe he is not. This is alright with me. But as I do trust him, this helps me to help myself. And I see how many people change, simply by using his techniques, simply by trusting him. For me, this is enough. I am thinking if he ever made some tea for me. Possible. He did many things for me. Like I did many things for him. Everything in the right moment. And complete love and trust is nothing else than devotion I guess your idea of devotion is, just to take away every self-responsibility. But it is not! It just makes you stronger and smoother in the same moment. His goal surely is not to hold me there for the next 50 lifes As I said his goal is to take away every attachment towards him. And to all those other subtle and less subtle attachments. And bring me (and as many people as possible) to Buddhahood.

Dear Goldishead, I never thought you wanted to be my Guru And I accept the friendship happily. I knew you would stumble about the word everything and yes, it sounds like danger, if you do it blindly. But I guess, I answered those things in my last post. I really wish you will find your teacher. I know you do not want it right now. But I have a feeling you will. We well see

Goldisheavy, I try another approach - not to convince, but trying to explain what is the purpose of guru-yoga in my experience: (see - you are a teacher of mine now. I need to clear my ideas more and more ) 1) what is devotion? it is not simply saying: hey you, boss! this is kind of blind. But devotion is not intended to be blind. You can be devoted to many things. And e.g. when I am devoted to what I do, I like doing it. If am devoted to my teacher/master/guru (give him / her the name you want), then it is far easier for me, to do my daily practice. Which means as well I trust that this method/practice will help me. If I do not have this trust, it will not help. As I continuosly will struggle with it. I could devote simply to the Buddha-nature in me. And I do. But it is really hard to see and stay in it, when I still do not really realize it. I could simply trust and devote to Buddha. But he is just a mere idea, I do not know him. I cannot talk to him. I cannot listen to his advice, because yet I am able to see him. Here enters the Guru. He is there. Visible. Touchable. I can argue with him. I can feel his love, he can guide me etc etc etc. And his job is not to guide me into depending on him - but the opposite. He has to take away things from me. Things I quite often do not like to give away. All my attachments (as well towards him), all my ignorance, all those "nice" things I want to keep. Like as well my sadness, my anger and all the other stuff I am stuck in. 2) Love: The first time I met my later teacher, in one moment I saw so much love and light in his eyes, as I never had seen before. This was the moment I started to trust him, to love him. I wanted more of this pure and complete love, of being finally accepted exactly as I am. This moment for me was incredible. I worked with this love for one year. And then finally came back to go deeper, to accept him as my teacher. Guru Yoga is about love (and trust and devotion and letting go). To love somebody with daily less expectations is incredibly strong. To allow somebody to love me completely, is changing me in an extreme way. It hurts often. Because the more I allow myself to feel his love, the more my personal bullshit comes to the top. The more I love him, the more I have to deal with my expectations. And yes. You can be, you are my teacher as well. But could you really handle all of my (and others) bullshit coming up? Could you really give me a hand passing through it? I know, I can not. I can handle many things - but not all. Many things touch my personal emotional knots - and then it gets complicated. And this is, why it is so beautiful to have a realized being as a teacher/master/guru. Until now he never ever got stuck in my stuff. I never saw him get stuck in anything. And yet he is able to offer a vast clearness and "nearness" (sorry, if my english words do not always fit). I use my teacher - he is not using me. I take all my bullshit on top of him. I give him the face of my fears, my blocks, my emotions. And as I do trust him, I can accept his hand, his help. (A hand which does not have to be the real physical hand). Just by trusting and loving, I can go nearer to my bullshit. I can face it, leave it. And see that behind all this, there is something very different than all this struggling. That there is clearness, silence. If there is one person I can show really nakedly who I am - this is incredibly strong. And this is Guru Yoga, this is devotion. And this is what is leading towards your own inner master, to the complete realization of emptiness. This is where you find real freedom. And then you are as well free of your master.

of course not. why give up? This is true. As I said, I consider the whole world, everything my teacher. Perfect. I am here for you as well. This is why we are in here. At least one reason why I am in here But I still trust more in my guru than in you And I feel him as a friend. As a teacher. As a guru. As everything. He is equal - because we are all Buddhas. But I still am more stuck inside whatsoever. And there he helps me. That's it. He is normal, he is nothing and nobody special. He does not even try to be. And exactly this is one difference: I surely try to be someone special All I am saying is: Having found a (for me) reliable master, is one of the absolute best things that happened in my life. One day I will have to let go as well this attachment towards him - but still I need him. I just noticed how it changed me. I am more in bliss than ever before. I have less fear. I am stronger. And softer. I love myself more. And the rest of the world. I will not convince you that this is for you - and you will not convince me that he is bad for me as he uses his traditon :-) I am pure bliss and happiness.... But quite often I still fall into misery, into self-pity, anger, ignorance.... Better said? no. they can wear training jackets as well. But a throne helps when you have a bigger audience. You see them, they see you. And decoration sometimes makes it easier to see the value. Imagine: I give you the most beautiful present, which for me is worth so very much - and hand it over to you in ugly paper with dirt and oil on it. Or I give it to you packed with love, in nice paper.... Will you give it the same value? Here in Germany we strongly had the anti-authoritarian movement. Kind of: children had no more rules. Which was directed as opposition to authorities, to blind following police, military, Hitler... in World War II. What sometimes results in those things is that children do decide whatever a family does. They are the authorities. I am neither a fan of this authority-system where I just can say "Yes, Sir" - nor one of the opposite.

Goldisheavy - even scientific community does work like this. Only when the right two people meet and share the right thoughts they will have the sudden insight which might lead to your new computer. If if was not like this, computers would exist since eternal times.

exactly. but I would run away from this vast emptiness without the help of my teacher. He holds the mirror in his hands so I can see me, I can correct my direction when I am lost, and he shows me my Buddha-nature. Which without him I would not be able to face. If you are able to do all this on your own, without getting lost - perfect. I am really really happy for you!!! This means you are in complete bliss and complete emptiness, in awareness of everything. Great! This is the best notice to hear! But I am not. And this is why I am happy to have somebody to guide me. I do not feel like dominated. And by the way: I see even my friends as my teachers. And you as well. Everything teaches me something. The word teacher is nothing bad. And Guru Yoga does not mean I am small and he is big. It does not mean he takes away my responsibility. I have more self-responsibility than ever before And yes: My teacher calls himself teacher. Which I appreciate. But it is a word. Nothing else. The rest comes automatically. But children neither do well in anti-authoritarian environments. And neither should I be a friend of my child allowing him everything - just because I want him/her to love me. This leads to those strange situations where children (and later adults) do not respect anybody. not even themselves. But I am neither (absolutely not) for being harsh or too authoritarian with children. I think you have to stimulate a child, love him, care for him - and sometimes put clear directions.

Because without guidance at least I have no chance to clean all my subtle and less subtle stuff - I would get stuck in there. I know there are people who do not need this outer teachings - as they had so many great teachings in their last lives. I know I am not one of those I was really afraid of and not into all this Guru-stuff as well. Until I met mine. Somehow everything changed - and I just wanted to be able to learn from him. Which took me one more year I believe that Gurus come in the right moment. And in the right way. Sometimes it just takes more time. And they do not really have a chance to work with you, if you are not opening at least a bit. Like a math-teacher - if I do not respect him (and he does not respect me) than we do not have a big chance that I will love math.

I hope you do not mind if I mix in, even if you did not adress me... Sure we have the capacity to learn from our inner teacher. But: Until which point? If I want to learn a language or math, I will rely on a teacher as well. Sure I can learn by my own logic. But to be honest - to understand Einstein oder quantum theory just waiting for my inner teacher... Neither would I tell a child to learn by trial and error and trust the inner teacher. The inner master is the goal in Guru Yoga. But before you are capable of being your own master you need to work through quite some stuff. And on this trip an outer master is more then helpful. I only can repeat: Guru Yoga opens the heart & the navel. It is such a great base for other practices. And in Vajrayana I think it is absolutely essential. I would not have been able to face certain experiences without my Guru, without trusting him. Which does not mean that everybody needs a Guru. I just say: It is the most incredible and helpful experience I ever made. And I'd wish everybody could have one - because to me this gives every day a bigger chance to go on my path, to face my fears, my emotions, my bullshit and to not run away any longer.

Beautiful post, Aaron. Thank you for being so open, vulnerable, clear and firm. Open without belittling oneself. Firm without closing to others, without putting the personal little truth higher than the truth of others. Thanks for this post and some others of the last hours. I really do appreciate and learn from how you deal with quite some intense behavior.

As I still do not have so much idea about Rigpa - I just ask myself if your practice is about that.

Dear Aaron, I do not recall Buddhism a religion. It rather is a philosophy, which offers a vast amount of techniques to reach at certain points. I do practice some of them. And I do trust and belief in the ideas behind that. Which makes me, in your idea, a Buddhist :-) I can understand what you mean, but please try to step one step out of yourself - and read your posts like if they were addressed to you. I at least find there somebody preaching, saying how others have to behave, knowing everything better. I do not know what you do believe in - but I imagine that you cannot hold all of the ideas in there. Are you never ever angry? Are you always loving your neighbour as yourself? I get this feeling that you do not like Buddhists, for which reason ever. That you expect us to be always aware of everything. And that you think you know how we have to behave. Which is weird. I do not say everybody in this forum behaves well. LIke in all forums and in real world. But honestly said, I think you are somewhere over the top as well. I do not think I insulted anybody. If I did - I am sorry. I just have my way to talk - and it might come across sometimes not just caring and loving. Exactly like yours is quite heavy as well. Just think how easy it is to feel insulted, when actually nobody ever did it. Me for example - I could feel a little insulted by your first post. You do not even say what I did "wrong", you just say we all do not follow the right path. I actually do not think you really wanted to insult me - but with you're preaching and knowing all better-attitude you did put your finger on some point. Ok - what now? Never ever speak again with anybody until we are all enlightened? Or accept that we all are people who struggle, who fight (mainly without reason), who do stupid things out of fear, out of ego - and who learn everyday something more.

see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigpa

sounds quite interesting. Little like direction Rigpa. Or am I wrong?

Hello Twinner, so many beautiful concepts around :-) I hope mine are at least as beautiful as all the others. And I love yours: "Buddhist have to behave like this or that." Do not forget to use exactly the words which are written down in the catalogue of right speech. Be full of compassion (read: always nice to everybody, maybe a little submissive). And do not forget to smile! Or something like this. Funny. Compassion is not only to be nice, lovely, kind, smiling.... It sometimes can look like the opposite. Or shall I smile at my kid when it runs onto the street? Shall I accept whatever anybody does to me? Shall I not stop somebody when I do know he is going to kill 10 people? No chance to say no? Interesting concept - which in my very very humble opinion does not lead to happiness. Neither yours not mine. I hope those words were not too harsh. Have a nice day Judith

Now I start to understand all your questions :-))) Yes, this is quite interesting how easy it can be to fall in trappings - to change one concept for another, only in tibetan clothes. I guess this is not my problems: I have concepts, of course, and many. But for which reason ever I am not the kind of person to want to have more of them or fall in a sect. Too many experiences in my youth, which make me run whenever one claims to know THE TRUTH. whenever I feel less space than before... Or maybe I am in a sect without knowing? Or everything is a sect... Or call it, as you do: a game. Nature is a great teacher. I wish I would spend more time in the middle of nowhere. With all this space around, this loneliness. And: This is a really beautiful foto and spot!

Of course it is subjective that I claim him to be more realized than me. So many things are subjective. Basically I do not know one thing which is not subjective, which can not be turned around by somebody quite convincing. Even science changes their objective ideas every now and then. Or can you tell me a method how to surely prove this? Except seeing him levitating and showing you a foto Are you sure I am not a realized being just tempting you? Can I be sure you are not completely aware and clear and realized and putting me on the spot? Whenever I am together with people I love, I feel more bliss. Whenever I am sad, I am far less in bliss. Whenever I am around people with good energy, it is easier for me to be happy. Whenever I do make my practice well, I feel more bliss. The longer I practice (I do not only mean 1 hour or two - but as well in the total amount of years), the more I am generally in bliss. Every state changes when I am with someone or with somebody else. Sometimes simply because the weather is changing. And sometimes because one of those bloody freaking thoughts comes up. My teacher is like him. Not my brother, not my uncle and not my boyfriend Did those answers help you? Why do you want to know all this? Did you have bad experiences and want to warn me? Do you have a teacher yourself? What are you studying? Does your practice make you more happy? Are you afraid a teacher could change your life?