Cheshire Cat

But you still have the real true Dao, Am I correct? You're not a master (because you have humility in your heart), but you've nothing to learn. You realized the Dao that Nan Huai Chin (南懷瑾) taught, but never reached. You're correct while others are deceived because you have a supramundane perception that lets you know. You're not the first nor the last who behaves like this. I've seen this many times. If all that you get are reverent friends and English lessons, I see no harm.

A few passages which I consider fundamental in understanding the method of the golden flower. Taken from http://thesecretofthegoldenflower.com/ 作用不外一中，而枢机全在二目。 二目者，斗柄也，斡旋造化，转运阴阳。 the essential mechanism of action through non-action is in the two eyes. The two eyes are like the handle of the big dipper, which manages creation and operates yin and yang ---- 《阴符经》云：“机在目”。 《黄帝素问》云：“人身精华，皆上注于空窍是也。 ”得此一节，长生者在兹，超升者亦在兹矣。 此是贯彻三教工夫。 n the Yin Convergence Classic it is said: "The eyes are the key". In Suwen from The Inner Classic of the Yellow Emperor it is said: "The essence of the human body flows upward and fills the empty apertures". If one understands this, one has the key to attaining immortality and transcending the world. This is a practice that pervades the three religions of Confucianism, Taoism and Buddhism. --- In the Ming version, we read something on this line "The deaf may eventually succeed, but for the blind, it will be very hard".

I'm aware of three different versions of the text which were translated in English. We have the Wilhelm translation which comes from a 1920 original print, paired with Hui Ming Jing and enriched with an interesting commentary. This text is about cultivating one-pointedness and the small heavenly circle in sequence. Then we have the Cleary translation which comes from a later print, and its methods are not focused on the body. But it includes chapters with undoubtedly alchemical symbolism which doesn't match with the simplicity of the techniques offered. Then, thanks to Wang Li Ping we have the Ming version used by Longmen pai. It looks like an extended Cleary'so version.

I think that if an immortal wants to teach the Dao of immortals, he doesn't need to talk so much about what it's not. He just tells the secret to the worthy, and hides oneself from the profane.

It's more like the "I'm enlightened, you're not" style and this time the "not understanding" side takes a distinctively objective shade. When I get the message "offline, back soon", I always make sure to refresh the page.

Quaballah is clearly calling you

Not much. Joeblast was temporarily banned, then we had a strenuous debate about Wu Liu Pai and we currently have the "chinese Deci Belle" who's looking for faithful disciples. Welcome back!

Hehe In any case, the practice that Hakuin was taught is considered a basic tantric exercise in almost every tibetan vajrayana sect: in fact, it's an energy movement present in the vajrasattva sadhanas. So, one doesn't really need to take a non-Buddhist practice. Yet, from the story it appears evident that the Hakuin sect didn't have important instructions to deal with cultivation problems...

I'm not daoist nor Buddhist, but as far as I understand, people are used to this types cognitive dissonance in almost all kind of religions. In this scenario, being wise is about not caring too much about the rules

I knew the story Taomeow, and in fact some people interpret this downfall as related to philosophical teachings and not to practical spiritual exercises.

To favour non-buddhist teachings would be one of the 46 bodhisattva's secondary downfalls in Mahayana.

Ok, let's try to put our feet on a common ground to summarize your points and see if we can manage to agree on a single post. 1) Yogiraj is a powerful Himalayan Master who is channeling an immortal yogi named Babaji. I don't believe that, therefore I'm ignorant. 2) Kriya yoga techniques work on the nervous system and they give strong sensations and bizarre experiences. You received a slightly modified version from him that gives you strong sensations and bizarre experiences, therefore he's a real guru. And BTW, I'm ignorant for some reason related to that. 3) If there are people who aren't as ignorant as me, and still they think that he's a fraud. ... it's because of their karmic imprints that they cannot recognize the truth which you're blessed to witness. 4) You've seen the movie Kumare, therefore you're spirituality immune to frauds from India.

Fortunately, I am. And in all honesty, I would be surprised to the highest degree if I could really make a vedantin philosopher reflect on those points just by typing a short post. BTW, this branch of the thread originally came from a vedantin that introduced the concept of Atman, pretending it was an absolute, self-evident, trascendent reality in the first place. So, who's trying to put seals and definitions?

This isn't hard to believe: it seems that nowadays people get results from almost anything, from Rael the E.T.'s prophet to the russian reincarnation of Jesus Christ.

Let's define "advanced" as one who is good enough to make money from that. Then I reply yes.

I don't trust vedanta: it looks like a fake spirituality based on philosophical talks. Gurus use to minutely describe what you're about to find in your spiritual quest, thus preventing you from discovering entirely different truths. In fact, this is pretty much the Hua t'ou meditation practice of Ch'an buddhism. The only difference being that in Buddhism, you rely on the question to develop a strong feeling of doubt and settle the mind in that. It's not used to discover a self by mean of reflective thinking, but to stop the mind and prepare oneself to experience reality as it is.

In truth, the basic reality of living in an entropic universe makes me question God...

mystery, I'm pleased to hear that you receive benefits from your practice and -more importantly- that you feel spiritually satisfied. I have all the practices of Lahiri's Kriya yoga and the -so called- 144 kriyas of babaji: I will not add any specifications to my previous post which is deliberately vague. I'm not a spiritual reformer and I'm not interested in sharing the details of my view about kriya yoga. I think that to balance this thread, we need someone who is critic about Gurunath and who has practised with him.

Nemo propheta in patria (Jesus) Your family will give to your ideas the respect that they deserve... only after you get it from the world.

I'm really thankful because you're trying to share something that is significant and meaningful for you. But still, I can't develop the faith to believe in the concept of Atman which is truly produced and expanded in the Upanishads, a group of ancient texts that constitute commentaries and extensions for Ṛgveda, Sāmaveda, Yajurveda e Atharvaveda. They were written later and this is an historical fact: you can't find the idea of the Atman and his reincarnation in the earlier texts. Rather there's the ancestral human belief in the "realm of the ancestors". Ancient greek philosophy is full of similarly-born ideas, but many of those had an unfortunate destiny in the hands of christians and muslisms. I don't believe something just because an ancient said so ... and BTW, the self-inquiry that is often presented to experience the atman is pretty much the same that is used in many buddhist schools to experience Anatta (An-Atman, no atman).

3bob, I still consider the Atman as a product of speculative thinking: it's not present in the Ṛgveda and it developed later in the Upanishads along with the concepts of karma and reincarnation. This stuff became quite popular at the time of the Buddha.

Surely an open mind is a great quality to make progress in the spiritual path, but critical thinking is -in my opinion- crucial in one's life: I mean that faith shouldn't be blind and the seeker should set a standard to evaluate the guru. In this example, I know and I have practised quite powerful tantric -and non-tantric- techniques under various gurus which revealed themselves to be harmful on the long term. By what standard are they powerful? Because I got strong sensations, prophetic dreams, a noble aura which impressed everyone and ability of manifestation. Why are they harmful if they produce such amazing benefits? Because there are many techniques which develop the spirit at the expense of the body, meaning they shorten the lifespan. The degree of damage is measured by the strength of one's practice: you could transform yourself into a spiritual giant... and die at 50, for example. The guru will never admit that and here one's critical thinking should kick in and be objective in his conclusions: for example, imagine that -as a result of your meditation- your semen will start to pass into your bladder. You may call it vajroli mudra and keep the logic technique is correct + bizarre sanskrit name---> result is correct ... but I wouldn't do that. Isn't "Atman" the result of centuries of speculative thinking in indian philosophies? Should we really consider this concept as substantial? Why?

An objective thing could be -for example- the actual lineage and the verifiability of the stories that surrounds the school: for example, I'm not keen at the idea of himalayan channeled masters

Don't get mad at me for sharing my opinions: I'm not a guru-debunker and I enjoy reading about your experiences. But I would like to hear critics as well

That could be a standard for some, but personally I think it's too subjective...