Jakara

Us? You mean you? Im sure many would like to know if a system being offered is bogus or not. If my comments are out of line then my apologies, or if my assessment of the situation is incorrect again my apologies. Ive tried my best to be objective. I thought that might be the case, which is why I said "if this were a seminar", free lectures are always offered as a taster to rally for the main course. Why aren't the seminars free otherwise? Perhaps the comment about condoning death was inappropriate, though as I read in the other posts the "golden dragon body" does requires a person to die. If Max can really offer immortality to people and they follow his teachings, die and come back in their immortal dragon form then hush my mouth. But given the amount of false statements already being displayed I doubt that is a likely event. There are endless questions, but none seem to get answered. Factual based evidence is pointed out as a warning and Max's followers don't seem to listen. Thats fine. I don't care what path anyone follows, its neither here nor there. I only felt a personal responsibility as someone with a scientific background to point out the flaws in the scientific claims that Max is making. He is making bogus claims that anyone with a deep enough scientific background will realise and expects to get away with it because the majority of us don't have enough scientific knowledge to challenge those statements. Fair enough, I can't question the appropriateness of visualisations as there is no evidence either way. The way in which it was said sounded a little fantastical is all. I have read the threads. My comments are actually very thoughtful. No I won't be giving Max my money, if you send me a free book and present a free seminar that contains the same content as one that I would pay for (not a free taster style lecture) i might be more inclined, if it weren't for all the sketchy claims being made. I don't care if my posts are respected by you, or anyone else, I don't care if I'm wasting my time and its your choice to read my posts. Ill offer my evaluation regardless of your opnion because it is based on logical, scientific and thought out facts, its has nothing to do with any personal agenda or opinion. I have no alternative system to offer, no bias towards Max or his followers and no reason to post for any personal benefit, I have nothing to gain from posting objective information. The only reason I do is because this is called the "Tao" bums, beginners come here to find information on real Taoism and the first thing they see is kunlun and get confused, it would be irresponsible for me to let it go unchecked when there are so many false statements being made. So i present them just as you present your experience.

60 or 70 people? For a seminar that would be a quick $20,000 for a few hours work. Just a few of those and its no wonder Max would no longer need to tour after a short while. Im hoping Max isn't condoning the death of one of his followers. How would that work? Is that number picked right out of the blue? Does anyone question anything he says? I was under the impression that visualisations during meditation were an undesireable by-product of the mind. Is that "tibetan master" actually tibetan? I can also communicate to people without using words, use your hands, but of course we should take Max's word for that. He brought him gifts? Isn't that a standard tibetan tradition regardless of status? I doubt any serious tibetan master with his own set of traditions is going to add bits and pieces from other traditions. Thats good, from what I gather its a practice that makes you feel good. Though of course that isn't tradtitional daoist practice like Max claims. If everyone's doing it, then I should probably jump on the band wagon without question. Hand over my money and bend over whilst im at it.

I wasn't sure if those questions were directed at me or not but ill answer them anyway. Agreed, there are many qualified who don't teach. Perhaps there are even many on this forum, though probably more beginners as thats what the forum is made for. Ive been practicing for a few years. Apologies I don't know where I am on the buddhist list, but then I'm not a buddhist. No offence taken, no im not a dark night of the soul, a similar concept is described in taoist experience, its confusing if you don't realise you're entranced, but how can we realise we are entranced if you can only think within the limits of the trance you're in? I guess we both know non-dualistic meditation is the answer, its the only way to know you aren't entranced, by definition. Thanks for the links, I love buddhism, interesting and effective to say the least.

Thats great, I'm not suggesting kunlun isn't real, im just pointing out some evidence, by all means make your own mind up about it. As I said I have no agenda and nothing to gain or lose either way. As for the science parts, Im fully qualified to answer them directly as I have done. Ideally if the forum were full of qualified teachers there wouldn't be many arguements, but its mostly beginners looking for more information on taoism and taoist practice, so i guess thats where much of the hostility can come from. Its natural, you only need to put a person behind an internet connection or the wheel of a car to see raw human compulsion. I would suggest looking at sources that we know to be genuine, for example the Tao Te Ching, compare sources like this and others which you know to be accurate and see which ones are most likely to be true. If you have access to a qualified teacher all the better.

Yes the taobums has been described as non-sectarian, so i guess that would include other groups too. I guess I am what you might call an intellect, and therefore think and question things in that intellectual manor. I'd agree intellect is not required whilst actually practicing techniques, but perhaps it should be used to determine which techniques to practice in the first place. Im glad you guys have a great time, and from what you say Max is a nice guy and very entertaining to boot. I wouldn't suggest otherwise. But still have to object to what is being claimed as authentic taoist techniques when so many flaws are apparent. I don't have personal agenda here, but have to point out the flaws to those who are questioning them.

Im not sure what trolling is but im not trying to stir it up if thats what you mean. All ive seen so far is more and more threads about kunlun practice. More and more beginners come to the taobums looking for guidance and not surprisingly the first thing they run into is kunlun. So no im not trying to offend or start an arguement, I just wanted to present some previously unposted information to help those coming to to look for real taoism and finding a huge number of posts about kunlun. I'd agree a healthy self respect is good for enlightenment and those fortunate enough to be cultivating a real practice are unaffected either way. But beginners are coming to this site as one of the most popular taoist forums online for help, so of course there should be a healthy debate, otherwise the teachings with the largest number of adherents dominates the forum and thats all the beginners see. This shouldn't go unchecked, especially when terminology/tactics are being used that would blind the average seeker, whether intentional or not.

Which part of Quantum Physics would that be? Are you on drugs? :-)

An entertaining video, thanks for posting it. Is it real? Who knows. Its pretty unlikely though isn't it :-) Given the conditions in which is was performed. Laws of physics and gravity are not broken, the laws remain intact when birds or shuttles fly etc. One could say that birds overcome the effects of gravity when they fly, but they do not defy the "law of gravity", the law is still there, pulling them towards the Earth, regardless of their flying, this is just terminology though. They fly using differences in air pressure, they can't fly in space :-)

Yes his name is Tom Kurtz, he isn't a martial artist, here is the original article which includes a side view: http://www.fightingarts.com/reading/article.php?id=13 He uses the stances as a means to getting into box splits, they are for stretching and not for martial arts use. Perhaps this was a bad example to link for the context of the horse stance being asked about. I linked them because it shows the angles of his back, legs, feet etc. - they aren't hidden with big baggy kungfu pants. He describes the stance as a "5 step" horse stance, but for kungfu one would use more of a 3 or 4 "step" stance which is therefore a little higher up with the thighs not quite so far apart. If you're a horse stance practitioner im sure you'll agree that your body strengthens and flexibility increases significantly over a period of time allowing for a deeper stance without reduced mobility. At the end of it all its best to get someone accomplished in horse stance to show how to do a proper horse stance in person. Pictures are fine but only give part of the story as cleary shown by this thread. You don't need a "kungfu master" to show you, just a practitioner with good form.

The daoyin was taught to me by a daoist priest, but the main exercises are a traditional set called the "eight pieces/section of brocade" or however you want to translate it. There are lots of free sites describing the practices if you google it, though there seems to be two different sets both labelled as the eight sections, one standing and one sitting, im refering to the traditional sitting one. Actually Ill write their names (im aware there are 9) so you can look them up accurately, they are in performing order: Tappng the teeth Beating the heavenly drum Shaking the heavenly pillar Red dragon stiring the heavenly pool Massaging the kidneys Single shoulder rotation massaging lower dan tien Double shoulder rotation massaging upper dan tien and spine Pushing up to heaven Grasping the feet I think the best book on it was by "stuart alve olson" called "qigong teachings of a taoist immortal". As with most qigong exercies they are very simple to perform (and very effective), even if you have no prior experience. If you get a good book on them or understand the basic principles of qigong you can do them without personal instruction from a teacher no problem. I practiced these for a while from a book before going over them with a daoist priest and there was no difference in the way I was performing them. Theyre great for martial artists too, do this type of daoyin for 20 mins twice a day for just 2 or 3 days and notice how flexible and light your body becomes.

Thanks for the input. My teacher practices Chen and Wu style Tai Chi and assures me that it is one of the highest martial arts, capable of defeating styles like praying mantis and therefore shouldn't be mistaken for a form of healthy exercise (as is often the case in the west) or any other misconception. I completely accept that, he has more experience than I do. My experience lies in the "harder" styles, so that is where my input on horse stance comes from - I can't comment on anything outside of my own experience. Im happy and interested to share experiences from other styles, please continue. No, I have no experience in the softer styles of martial arts. I practice two types of qigong, the first set is soft and dynamic designed to stimulate qi flow and nourish vital organs, the second is a hard qigong set designed soley for martial arts purposes. I have little experience with energy cultivation in the context for spiritual progress, its something im currently researching, at the moment i practice wu-wei daoist non-conceptual meditation (zuowang), and daoyin (daoist yoga). Im very familiar with hard work. No need for a silver plate, im happy to give out any and all information I have experience with, Im hoping for the same in return if your tradition allows it. We are all in the same relationship with Dao.

The first guy looks more like combat style, the second looks more like the energy cultivation type, which I think is what is being shown respectively. The combat type seems to stress a low solid stance that is required to execute a powerful attack or defence with proper grounding. The energy cultivation type I guess is more focussed on correct bodily alignment for proper energy flow rather than a deep rooting in the ground to withstand an attack. Though im just speculating at this point, as I said before my experience is in combat and I use the same combat stance for energy cultivation with good results. I don't have any pictures of myself doing the stance, im a little reluctant to post any. I study a northern praying mantis style, just for reference. Any combat styled horse stance is similar to the one i do, the first picture you posted is a good example.

The pictures I linked are from a quick google search at the spare of the moment simply to give an understanding of what the stance looks like, by all means don't take them as the highest model of what to go by, they are just examples. The style I practice might be considered a "hard" style when compared to styles like xingyi or bagua, perhaps different points of horse are emphasized for internal culitvation than for combat - which is where my horse stance experience is based. Or it might simply be my inability to communicate the finer points across the internet. If you have a more accurate picture for the context of this subject then please post it to help further the understanding.

I wouldn't worry about electrical outlets with any form of spiritual practice, unless it involves sticking objects into the outlet. Theres no evidence to suggest anything spititual or any energy cultivation is associated with magnetism. I think the term is used metaphorically and isn't related to actual magnetism that you would find with a running current. If you're getting shocks on metal objects its static electricity, happens to me all the time on metal railings at department stores. Happens on humans too, drag your feet on a synthetic carpet and touch your friend, you'll both get a shock.

Perhaps this is a better example, its a bit higher up and therefore more accurate, but the principles remain the same. http://z.about.com/d/martialarts/1/0/t/6/horse.jpg

There's no mystical secret to horse stance, its just proper technique and regular practice. Ignore any new age mumbo jumbo thats being spewn about. Once the proper stance is acheived the rest occurs naturally by itself. The picture I linked previously is a good example to a certain degree, though as I did say at the end of my last post - the picture shows deep stretching, and real horse is not as low down, but otherwise his form is excellent. The guy in that picture is an authority on stretching but not a martial artist, infact he can side split across two chairs with people sitting on his legs - his stance is both flexible, steady and strong. It does take time to get lower in horse stance, though the aim is not to get as low as possible. A lower stance lowers the centre of gravity making for a more stable stance, but too low and it will become too wide making it hard to cover in defence. The first video you linked looks fine, the second not so much as their asses are sticking out a bit. Im a senior in a traditional kungfu school with a full lineage based in taiwan, none of the new rubbish china is currently pumping out. Im happy to go over the finer details here or in private if you want to PM me, though I obviously can't teach full techniques without my teacher's permission, I can however go into as much detail as you'd like with stances, including horse.

Are you asking the correct method for horse stance (Mabu)? The stance is quite deep, and used often in qi-gong etc. The easiest way to explain it with text is to get into the basic stance and then correct each part of your body bit by bit. By far the best way is to do it in a mirror, then check you look as much like a reference picture as your flexibility will allow. First put your feet just over shoulder width apart, Make sure both feet are always facing dead straight forwards, don't turn them outwards or inwards at any time, a typical mistake is to turn the feet outwards when you bend your knees. keep your feet flat on the floor (don't go on tip-toes or your heels) Keeping your back absolutely straight, bend your knees so your begin to squat down, but keep your ass inline with your spine, don't stick it out behind you - that would be toilet stance. Bend your legs, not your body. Push your knees out sideways (this is important), so each knee is roughly over the corresponding foot, and sink a little more into the stance. When you sink in the stance, the knees push outwards and your legs bend, you do not bend your body over or stick your ass out. Check that your back is straight, your feet are facing forwards and not turned outwards, your knees are over your feet (as far as you can), your ass is tucked inline with your body. Your arms can be held behind your back, in front of you straight in the bell stance, or more commonly clench your fists and retract your arms to your sides so your hands are facing palm-side up and at chest height, your elbows are therefore behind you. Its a tough stance when you do it properly, most have trouble holding it for more than 30 seconds, during which time you will feel your heart beating more rapidly, so adjust your breathing rate accordingly. Here is a picture (his arms should be held higher up): http://www.fightingarts.com/content00/graphics/kibas5.jpg Note that this guy is very flexible, his thighs are horizontal - parallel with the floor, and hence his stance is very wide because the whole of his thighs are pushed outwards. This is for stretching purposes, in real horse stance used in kungfu the thighs are very low but not quite horizontal, making a slightly narrower stance.

Is this a buddhist scripture? It doesn't sound taoist. Thanks.

Root: under-active (-25%) Sacral: open (56%) Navel: open (31%) Heart: open (31%) Throat: open (63%) Third Eye: over-active (69%) Crown: open (19%) I was hoping for: Root: closed Sacral: closed Navel: closed Heart: closed Throat: closed Third Eye: closed Crown: open closed A spiritual as a teaspoon

There is a great book on it called Kundalini Tantra: http://www.amazon.com/Kundalini-Tantra-Swa...i/dp/8185787158 It says (roughly) that its a combination of yogic postures, the correct breathing, visualisation, mudras, mantras and meditation. All used to bring about kundalini, which occurs when two types of internal energy are combined. This resulting kundalini is then sent up the spinal meridian (which its called sushumna) to open to chakras. Here is a diagram http://www.tantra-kundalini.com/nadis.htm

I agree. We don't enter a specific mind-set when we go into meditation; that would be a trance. We "simply" sit in the present moment, bringing your focus to the right there and then. No wondering about the future or past, or thinking about other places than the one you are in right there. No need to try to acheive a state of mind, other than the one you have now. If you are reading this text with full attention, you are in the here and now. This is the example of experience you can use. The concept of this is easy, but the practice is not so easy, our mind wanders around thinking about scenarios and the future etc. When it does, gently bring it back to the present.

Meteors won't emit anything they haven't recieved, unless its a chemcial property, like radioactive material emitting gamma-rays. If its received some radiation eg from the sun, it will re-emit that in a certain spectrum, but this is the same for any object behaving as a "black body", its not specific for meteors. Ultraviolet-3 raditation is made up. Yes all matter is like "condensed energy" using the famous equation e=mc-squared you can calculate how much is in matter. There is a huge amount, the average person's mass contains around 7.2x10^18 J of energy, thats 100 power stations operating for over a year. Enough to power a huge country for a year from just 80kg of material, you could even use garbage. Problem is, you can't extract the energy :-) Anyway, if the techniques work, great, theres no need for modern scientific explanation.

Expanding and contracting energy? Black holes give off absolutely no radiation, except for the theorized, but not yet observed, hawking radiation - which is an amount so small it is almost non-existent. It is black because it bends space into itself so much that no light or matter can escape it, so it appears black to all instruments. Black holes must be infered by interaction with their surroundings. Astrologists? I wouldn't call an Astronomer an Astrologist if I were you :-) Meteors emit no such energy, neither do black holes. Its a typical attempt to justify one's claims by lending credibility with the use of "science". Once material has crossed the event horizon it may well lose its original properties, such as charge or magnetic moment. Kerr black holes are magnetic (in theory). We do not have validated theories of the physics past the event horizon. If these "bliss" techniques work, that is adequate, no need to include false science to try to back it up. Im pretty sure that if these techniques come from orthodox lineage that are generations old, their explanation by the original practitioners/inventors contained nothing about hawking radiation, black holes, or meteors. These are all modern concepts and nothing like this is described in any ancient texts.