XieJia

If we look, we can only see one. You can see only that of you... I can see only that of me... When you can see me as me, who is it that see? When I can see you as you, who is it that really see? Be Well, Be Safe My friends

Dear Dwai, From your experience, could you put Tantra in perspective as well? I do think it will be educational for us all to mention the both. From my interpretation, the mind stream's torrent is depends on the faculty of the practitioner. So when one doing something for something or A hence B, is contributing to one's own mind stream torrent?

Lol, seems like you are on tight schedule MH . I am sure we will do fine until 81... Although do wish to see Dawei's and Lienshan's insight aswell. The Way of Heaven, The Way of Man... Virtue. Chidragon, imho I do think the shengren 聖人 (sage) and the no-dwelling have some relevant context. Would you mind sharing with us why you rule them out?

Just to add, what you means are saying are right. For me, I found it's easy to understand it through martial arts. When the body freezes up, or manifested in anyway; it gets hit and will sustain damage or injuries. However when it is soft or flexible, a good martial artist or the natural ones can nearly redirect all incoming force through their movements or back at the attacker. My two cents this time .

We have Americans and now we have Chinese propaganda... There's still interesting people in the mountains.

So here's where the party is... We miss you in the DDJ forum Lienshan. I don't think that Bagua is a 'Daoist' symbol; It's that of the Ancients however. Fuxi came up with that Bagua sequence you posted above; and King Wen's another. The question is whether Yi Jing (I Ching) is Daoist or not... Taking a purist point of view, I don't think they are.

Wu Wei concepts echoes throughout the DDJ, chapter 76 flows nicely from the previous chapters that we tackled. Yin and Yang flowing; thus the sky is atop and earth below. The Ultimate Yang in its nature Yin, the Ultimate Yin in its nature Yang. The things manifested, destroyed. Names created, forgotten. Yin Yang flows back and forth. Throw your arms up and out and breath ahhhhh.... Life and Death... Transient (Apogolies for a Buddhist flavor here)

didn't know the Dao could flow.

Living... Take things as they comes... Send things as they go... What's more? What's less? Dying....

Agreed; but the word 'self' is really ambiguous. If one nurtures all, that all is still one? The Selfish acts as really for the self is in diminishing the self, The Selfish acts for the other is in accumulating the self. All ambiguous. Me knows nothing, merely just changing the words

draṣṭuḥ also sounds like to be enlighten or enlightened avasthānam - the 'am' at the end normally implies the word being a noun. avasthan means the 'complete ending' so namely - to translate That is to say the knowing into self-nature of such form is thus the self-ending of such form. वृत्ति सारूप्यमितरत्र ॥४॥ vṛtti sārūpyam-itaratra ||4|| in that same form, the mind-projectile makes it otherwise. However we could make a interesting comparison, if we merge 3 and 4 together. We could also interpret vrtti as the same form as drastuh but yet otherwise; makes me think of chapter one of DDJ as well. I don't know that much on Sanskrit but this is what I would like to add . *Note: We don't have itara in the Thai language I think...

I don't know much about Yogas. But I do see similarities in the words Sanskrit and the Pali Buddhist text I chant in my language. Thai is also based on Pali, hope I help in a way or the other. Citta - mind not sure about vrtti but it sounds like the word 'projectile' in Thai nirodhah - to transcend, transcending, transcended

When there's no you, Who's there to say OK. Really nice, sounds good to me but You should stay away from those tea .

MH, agreed with you whole-heartly about how we could go through and break down concepts or prose in each chapter. I took the liberty of linking to the translation Marblehead mentioned here: Burton Watson's Translation James Legge's Translation Nina's Translation Lin Yutang's Translation Would be nice if Chidragon, Dawei and Lienshan could also join us with their Chinese translations, not sure how that would work yet. But yeah, Thanks Marble Keep up the good work!

Guess the idea can be related by to the previous chapters we went through. That of the Within and Without, One type of people burns the Within for the Without. The other uses the Without to nurture the Within.

Me thinks either Lao Zi is having a sense of humor here or I got it so wrong. If we look from the viewpoint of being the people here instead of the Governance here, (I think It could be read from both ways). Noted that the MWD B text used different characters instead of 民 (min) or the Masses as we found in other versions. 人 ren - people (used for the first statement) 百生 bai sheng - hundred lives (used for the second statement) 民 min - Masses (Used for the last statement)

Hi Michael, Welcome to the Tao Bums;

Although we don't know eachother much. All the Best Aaron, May the light be on the Way, and the Way be your guide.

the two last lines.

Hahaha, Seems like I stop knowing English and its comprehension I get what you mean (Confusing myself more in the process)

not really sure what you meant by big assumption. Would have thought that the Dao surely creating and parting things with their appointed time. To do that in the Way's place is not wise. I used the MWD B; If common people do not fear death, how then why threaten them with death? To make common people fear death, is the same as creating the unusual, (Creating those that kills) I get in hand that of killing. Who would dare? I see where it is possible to see it as a big assumption, but people born; people die. How is it assuming?

I interpret the Great Executioner and the Great Carpenter to be the Way of Heaven or the Dao. So I would translate Lines 3 - 6 differently.

By letting the world see itself; We deny what is coveted by the self; We accept what is rejected by the self; When denying and accepting fails to be different. Then what could it be called? Still, I borrowed this from somewhere; me myself don't know much.