XieJia

电 (Dian) - Electricity 水 (Shui) - Water

Sorry, it seems that I didn't made myself clear. Free Love meaning when you cultivate compassion for the world and it returns as a part in all. In Free Love; I meant Free 'Metta'. Compassion in its sense without any giver or receiver.

I didn't say that it become entirely useless. It is only useless upon the intended purpose. Like with Marble's use of the rain bucket in the other thread. Everything still have its use. So no, imagine how big my fishing rod have to be to catch the great Kun and ensnare the great Peng. Agreed, in a way. The Path of the Four have been take to the completion, Yao got closer to the Way imho.

Hi Informer, Love everything you wrote. Question: What is the nature of Free Love? The one that doesn't have any giver or receiver.

1) I didn't include him. (The Spirit Man is a ideals, Liezi pursued that ideal). 3)Yes, I mean the act of pursuing 4 Confucian Ideals is 'incomplete'. (Based upon constriction of words and how people believe in it; in Gu Ye, what did the Four become for the Tribal people? Same with the Hat?) I somehow agreed with Lienshan about the materialst/idealist (If we need to use those words ). I think that sum things up nicely, Beliefs are Beliefs (who knows when it stopped being beliefs for oneself?) Take care guys

至人無己 神人無功 聖人無名 As Dane and Steve (in Chapter 1A) have pointed out beautifully. The Arrived have no-self. The Holy have no-achieving. The Exalt have no name. No-self therefore Arrived. No-Achieving therefore Holy. No-Name therefore exalt. Have a good Day.

Let me share my attempt then. In my humble experience, this chapter mainly revolve around the uses of 'words' and the concept around it. Freeing ourselves from the conceptual bondage. I think the feel can be tied indirectly to DDJ like chapter 2. The Spirit-Man symbolize the Ideal/True 'Man or the 'Completed Human Beings'. Chien Wu don't understand this he viewed it as conflicted to his constrained understandings. That is why Lien Shu commented so. For something to be bad, there must be good first. For something to be incomplete, it started off as complete. The nature of words/thinking/concepts are created with thus. This is the same with Blindness and Deafness. Without Seeing, or Hearing; there won't be Blindness or Deafness. So in Dawei's vocab; This and That 'That' because of 'This' So without 'This', there won't be 'that' We could also apply this with Lienshan's favorite pair of 'Objectivity' and 'Subjectivity' if one deem appropriate. The Hill of Gu Ye is at the Northern Border next to Mongolia as Dane have pointed out; it is the boundary that the things that applied by the Chinese no longer applies to the same values/beliefs for the Mongols (Tribal people). Labels is Labels when the words people communicate shared the same meanings. When the 'Words' doesn't point the same thing, they lose their value of communication. I feel that Zhuangzi is also saying in a similar terms to Laozi that Words and its meaning is temporary. If one are to constrict their own thinkings with the words they used; this is bringing burden upon one-selves. The 'four' Yao encountered isn't really important (I think Zhuangzi use this device to make us try to provoke names and reference, only to know that it doesn't really matter at the hill of Gu Ye, this is similar to the Monkey thingy). But if pressed, I would like to second you guys as the four confucian virtues; by seeing the reality of them such as the blinded sees and the deaf hears. He see what he thought to be 'incomplete' as 'complete' whole within his being.

Gu She （Ye) 姑 射 (I used Chinese Text Project as my source and Wenlin) Separating out the characters 女 (nu) - women/female 古 (gu) - ancient/age-old or not following current customs/practices 身 (Shen, this is not the same shen as spirit shen 神) - Body 寸 (cun) - Picture of hand with a thumb The Oracle Bone version of 射 depict a Bow with a Hand/Arrow; Shen means shoot/fire. I will leave the interpretation to each own accord.

Love it!

@Chidragon @Rene Although I am of Chinese descent; I would say my Chinese is quite weak. However, I use a small technique that I think would also be useful for non-chinese reader/Western audience. That is to go straight to the feeling/concepts that comes to mind when the words/characters are invoked. Chinese language is a pictograph, they just puts a lot pictures together to tell the story. Think of it as reading a strings of symbol or emoticons. Take care now; XJ P.S. You might need a dictionary...

In my humble opinion, Hill of Gu Ye is presented as some kind of realisations; I think one could also see something from dissecting the Chinese Characters. The People who live at Gu Ye, the Spirit-guy and the four dudes.

Indeed I just don't see a reason to reject it or to fixate on it. Have a nice day

Take away God or Nothingness (Don't bring them into the picture). The desire/no desire you feels or see is illusional. The desire of 'not wanting to do something' is still a desire. A desire to overcome that desire of 'not wanting to do something' is also a desire. It's your will against your will; The Dao is not about your will. Like many have said; Just Do What Needs Done. Don't talk about transcending 'Desire'. Take things as it come and goes. Be With Care

I don't think I know too much on the subject but this is what I can share with you. Wanting 'no wanting' is still wanting. Taking breathing for example; the desire 'to breath' the desire 'not to breath' the desire 'to lengthen the breath' the desire 'to shorten the breath' the desire 'to breath in rhythm' the desire 'not to breath in rhythm' one will find that the 'desire' is independent of the 'act' of breathing itself. and that the 'act' of breathing does not depends on the 'desire'. When one breath in, one has to breath out. When one breath out, one has to breath in. This goes accordingly to the moment. such are the same with work, family, responsibilities, studies one act accordingly to the task at hand in the present. Toy with the idea then share with the bums; I am sure that many bums can give wonderful inputs. Take care now Everything.

Still, the people might be able to find its uses. Carrying stuffs for example

True ZZ needed to be interpret metaphorically. However there must be a reason why ZZ choose certain word to represent something. Such as why you choose to name yourself ChiDragon, Marblehead as Marblehead, Lienshan as Lienshand, Dawei as Dawei and Xiejia as Xiejia. There are always stories behind these name, by dismissing it; it would be the same as using A,B or C. In my humble opinion, I do think that it have some value in looking into.

Welcome PS Take care

dreaming and not dreaming. speaking and not speaking. What do one do when one dreams, What do one do when one speaks, Confucius is portray as the Dreamer; so does Master Timid Magpie. Dreaming has its boundaries; to dream is to set this boundaries to dream is to see this boundaries to dream is to be this boundaries not-dreaming no boundaries not-dreaming not to set boundaries not-dreaming not to see boundaries not-dreaming not to be this boundaries so such is with thinking, speaking, wording. just temporary boundaries, meanings are temporary. thus it is useful to know the unknowing. thus it is harmful to don't know the knowing.

David; Similar case is apply between the conversation between Huizi and Zhuangzi right?

Thank you for sharing Deci . 三 So a complete human being shared the same body as the heaven, earth and that of the Dao. The true nature of Man is Wuwei. Where Wuwei is the true nature of Man.

Come In! Come In! 4 for 3 fake Rolexes! (silence is golden) Get Out! There are times before Rolexes are, times before fakes Rolexes. There are no beyond Rolexes and fake Rolexes. There are just no Rolexes and hence how could it be fake?

Hi TS Welcome to the Tao Bums

Just to add fuel.. From my humble experience, I don't know where philosophy stops and practices starts. Without practices, philosophy won't be of any use other than decorations. Without philosophy, practices would be tedious/lacks directions.

Hi David Thank you for sharing. I agree wholly with your presentation of Zhuangzi's. My observation is that the Yin and Yang can already be understood through the North and South sea; I was just wondering why ZZ choose to give them characters and personified making them 'Ruler'. Do you guys perhaps see any deeper/other hidden interpretations?