Procurator

that word 嚴 means "respectful" and also "strict in conduct", probably chad meant "exacting in his duties of a guest."

not quite. they use follow because they are commoners. and as such they dont realise that the way is a two way street.

very true regarding 時 . however ziran remains a very misunderstood term, perhaps it was meant that way stated like that- absolutely correct. from here it is just a couple of steps to get to the true meaning of ziran. but those are hard steps to make.

纓 糸+17 缨 yīng to annoy, bother well bother=worry=care so the paralell btwn 1st and 2nd sentence is even more pronounced 1.the arrival of the wan's messenger is worrisome for the servant and his departure leaves him with worry about carrying out the ordered duty 2. fulfilling "the Great Care" is worrisome for wan while alive and even if wan dies the worry is still there. have a safe trip:)

The story arc here is 3 fold as usual: 1. an obvious premise 2 example of a commonsense beneficial action based on that premise 3 generalisation of that action into a non-obvious, secret governance rule so: 1 external stimuli disorganise ruler's heart. 2 so the wan counters it with 為腹, which is a contraction of a 為腹心 a meditative exercise often mentioned in texts 3 THEREFORE one needs to always take care of what is close and internal, and leave what is outside and external well alone.

majc u seem to start celebrating early:))Merry Xmas! i expressly disagree with xHSG so no i dont make the same point. he says DDJ is about following either Dao or ziran. i say it aint so. its neither and there is no following in DDJ message. so i make a different point. but its all good.)

This is a false dichotomy since it is based on a false assumption that "following" is good for some reason. I do not intend to talk in detail about this issue since it is outside of common frame of reference, but for the record point out that the message of DDJ is directly opposite to following.

yes that is what i meant thank you very much:) i think what is worth noticeing here that in all excavated versions as opposed to the received version 持而盈之，不如其已；揣而銳之，不可長保。金玉滿堂，莫之能守；富貴而驕，自遺其咎。功遂身退天之道。 a) all lines are 8 characters the last line is made 8 character artificially, by inserting a filler character . in the standard version thou its 7 characters, so its in all likelihood an explanatory early comment "when the merits are fulfilled -the body retreats back to Heaven to join Dao". and WB corroborates that by 載 ascend

you are quite correct in your intuition since separation of Hun and Po souls is happening at death so first line is an obvious reference to qigong type practice to prevent an untimely death. one grammar point thou, most translators treat 乎 as a rhetorical question and reduce the whole first part of the chapter to a disjointed sequence of such. in fact its probably a particle that strings several activities together so its better rendered with "or" or "either" in that way the chapter is an enumeration of activities all of which represent the subject of the last line: all of it is called hidden De.

20. 持盈 [chi2ying2], v.i., maintain a good luck or success: 持盈保泰 maintain good luck by restraint. http://humanum.arts.cuhk.edu.hk/Lexis/Lindict/ i have not read WB's commentary but it seems that much of DDJ has lost meaning by his time. He got the first one right thou, per you. It would be interesting to see what he has to say about the last line here.

Hendrik's mistake is in overlooking a fairly rare usage of 已 as "to get rid of". e.g 三已之 (letting him go 3 times). that is why his first line is nonsensical. but in fact it says "planting something and seeing it grow to the point of excess is not as good as getting rid of it altogether" 植而盈之，不若其已 then it will jive with the last line "removing yr body".

excellent historical reference!

Hi Dawei congrats on getting very very close to the meaning. To make the last step we have to recall what was the most important task of all archaic civilisations (governments if you will). It was managing water for irrigation and protection from floods. Note water radical in 治- its not a coincidence. From Mesopotamia to Egypt to contemporary US with its Corps of Enegineers its is the most crucial task. Specifically in China it was preoccupation of the 3 emperors Xuan, Yu, and Shun. So the water was not trivially good and calm as translators would like us to believe, it was evil and had to be subdued by the common effort of the entire archaic society which cant be done without government. The closest to the underlying story line is http://ctext.org/excavated-texts?searchu=%E4%B8%8A%E5%96%84%E6%B2%BB%E6%B0%B4 《馬王堆 - Mawangdui》 《老子甲 - Laozi A》 《老子甲道經》 上善治水。the highest governing is governing waters 水善利萬物而有靜，waters are governed then they benefit all things and become calm 居眾之所惡，then they are contained and amassed deep(惡) 故幾於道矣。and then they become calm (幾) with Dao 居善地，dwellings are governed by location 心善瀟，heart is governed by its deepness 予善信，allowances are governed by trust 正善治，punishments are governed by order 事善能，civil service is governed by capabilities 動善時。actions are governed by timeliness 夫唯不靜，if all of the determinants above not calm 故無尤。 then no results above are superior.

Hi rene, yes, comparatively speaking, he hit the nail on the head with that one, 居善地 does indeed mean "dwellings are governed by location". it does not mean the dweller better get used to where he is forced to live, it means rather that when dwellings are constructed the spot is chosen based on landscape and location. you know the old saw in real estate business "location location location". so his translation is indeed closest to the original meaning. the others miss the point entirely.

Hi:) great, and its all good. as long as your happy with yr POV then its all good.)

Hello, you are most welcome. yes his is probably closest to original i ever saw.

Dear majc, i dont know about the mods but you r very welcome to call me anything u like.) dont mention it:)

in neidan, the internal alchemy there is a set phrase -"a body outside of body", it refers to an out-of-body experience. in it, the internal body that was inside, exits the flesh body and is now outside of it. that is why this internal body is referred to here as an outside body. confusing, i know. :

its actually a very good question, that really goes to the crux of the matter. You see, as opposed to modern j-xtian thinking an immortal soul its not a given. It has to be perfected and not every one is capable of it. That is why the text emphasises "capable", only on that condition will one have a long lasting embodiment in this world.

Hi:) yes, may be we can put it that way as a shorthand. but if we rephrase what the passage really says it would sound like this: "Heaven and Earth are long living, its a fact. Why? Because there is something that sustains them from within, from another dimension. Now, the saints (the former emperors like Huang, Yu, Shun) were also long living. Why? Because within their bodies of flesh there was an energy body that sustained them from within.What can we learn from this two facts? That if we want to live long we need to imitate this and develop energy bodies."

yes! absolutely correct. with one minor twist added. the outside physical sheath-body is also made everlasting by virtue of an eternal body inhabiting it.

Hi rene let me amuse you a little bit cause it would be a shame if you get bored wouldnt it now? u see its not the original that gets repetitive its the know-nothing translators run out of their limited understanding, so their forced to chew same fat over and over. "Heaven and Earth endure because they are selfless" is not that singular nonsense? I can give to charity all i want how that is gonna help with my longevity? as usual the translations could not be any further from the truth. but rejoice! there is a startling new truth in this passage. here is the truth: 韬光 Sheathing the internal body 天長地久。Heaven is long lasting Earth is long enduring. 天地所以能長且久者， Heaven and Earth are capable of being long lasting and ever long enduring 以其不自生，becase they do not live OF THEIR OWN ACCORD 故能長生。Therefore they are capable of long life 是以聖人 That is why the saints have 後其身而身先；a former body but also a latter body; 外其身而身存。a non-body but also a sheath body 非以其無私耶？without it how would their Non-Being embody? 故能成其私。Its because of the above they are capable of perfecting their embodiment.