Procurator

if by the " original text" you mean translators groupthink then yes:)) i have made myself clear on the rest above. please re-read my explanation of the 3partite story arc above and why REN in one sentence means kernel and in other- humane-ness. your tenacity is admirable but for this chapter i have provided a comprehensive explanation already and nothing will be gained from reapeating it. if you need explanations on other chapters u r welcome to post yr questions to me in those threads and i will reply cause this discussion amuses me. u just mentioned Line 1. Tao that cant be told...again that is not what is in the original. just sayin')

http://mdcc.com.tw/html/english/html04/page07.htm 024. The key to practicing Dao is to hold the "center," which is the same as the teaching in the Doctrine of the Mean, which states: "When the feelings of joy, anger, sorrow, and delight are perceived but not displayed, it is called the 'center'." 324. Uphold your true self and empty your mind, and the power of karma will not affect you.

At one complex of tombs in Henan Province, excavations have uncovered more than 1,200 sacrificial pits, most of which contain human victims. An archaeologist once told me that he had counted 60 different ways a person could be killed during a Shang ceremony. But he also reminded me that these were rituals, not murder and mayhem. From the Shang perspective, human sacrifice was simply part of a remarkably well organized system http://ngm.nationalgeographic.com/2010/01/chinese-afterlife/hessler-text/3

"The Chinese premodern state was built upon sacrifice," said Plutschow, "and no theory of Chinese statehood could ever be proposed without reference to sacrifice and sacrificial ideology." http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/01/080129-china-tomb_2.html

nothing gets past u, does it?) oh but u missed the third option. the one i use with folks who try telling me what to do.. say hi to ignore list

thanks rene, it is my pleasure. i would be able to contribute at any point in the discussion when it turns to the original chinese for substantiation. without the original text its all just a lot of hot air. but what can you do? ppl buy second hand or cheap imitations because that is all they can afford not because they like it. here, it is one better- they like it to boot.

(shrug) famous Peking Opera. One instructor's joints made audible cracking sounds as he executed each move (!), and almost to a man, each would start chain-smoking cigarettes when he had finished. The old, tanned face is inscrutable, as the tall, stooped figure steps from between the ranks of waiting students. He sucks in the cold mountain air and calmly adjusts the silk shirt, stitched for him by his wife and which clashes incongruously with his old pair of trainers. Oblivious to both this and the crowd, he calmly stubs out a cigarette and launches http://www.nickryan.net/articles/kungfu.html himself into the Calling Crane

yeah, same old..i feel..i incline..i believe...the people like it. yeah the consumers would like it no question about it (yawn) heheheh:)) you would wish wou ldnt you?

good for u, letting go is a hallmark of maturity. DDJ as any cultivation is not for everyone. few ppl can handle this truth.

u betcha! i hope my above post answers your esteemed request

chinese is omophonic, i . e. many words - same sound. To make sense of it they resort to omophonic etymology e. g. "why ghosts are called GUI 鬼？Because they come back 归 GUI from dead" Humane- ness is represented by a character for heart, the core (heart) of the human being, therefore the same charecters also means a core, a kernel. The brilliance of this passage is in its story arc: 1.Heaven and Earth are empty (no kernel REN ); the ruler is heartless (no humane-ness REN), the bellows are empty. 2.All 3 work in miraculous ways and preserve themselves unendingly due to their emptyness 3. therefore you need to imitate them, cut out verbality to become empty like a centre (which in chinese has a meaning of an empty middle) Despite the passage even being called "the use of emptyness" this story arc is completely lost on on modern reader, translator. the nobility is closest to ruler's person, they protect him with their lives in time of war, serve him in peace, and follow him in afterlife at his departure.

the passage is crystal clear on what the bellows has to do with ppl, so no i dont. u on the other hand present no supporting argument.also you together with Carrea are wrong on "discarding", what u think of as discarding is actually the most imoportant use - the rite of renewal both of the ruler's dynasty and the Heaven and Earth. sorry Sir. i am not in business of could would or should. i am in business of the way things ARE.

no i dont but then again my POV is that DDJ is a quite clear text in itself if one understands its paradigm. unfortunately the translators dont, and that is why they they completely miss the narrative arc of each individual passage. which (due to contextuality of wenyan) in turn leads to inventing phrases that are not in the oroginal. there fore volumes r written on "acting without acting" - a nonexsistent notion in the original. or "Heaven and Earth are not benevolent"- they r uuuhing and aahhing...man thats. like, deep man! except that is not what the te xt says. at all.

Well let start with straw dogs "Straw dogs were made by the Ancients before funerals. Straw was tied into shapes resembling dogs. The dog was considered to be a faithful animal who would fight to the death to protect its master, which was probably why it was chosen for the shape of these objects. The straw dogs were kept under a brocade cloth in the temple, where they were sanctified and cleansed. They were carried along with the corpse at the funeral parade, since it was believed that the straw dogs would attract and conquer any bad spirits which might try to inhabit the body of the dead person. After the procession, the straw dogs were burned in a bonfire, or were smashed and discarded as useless." - Your Dao De Jing, Nina Correa p.247 Here the key word is FUNERAL, for an archaic psyche it is always a rite of renewal, a cycle of life. The passage talks about cyclical action of bellows. WHY? To let us know how and why Heaven and Earth are inexhaustible. They are both CYCLICAL and EMPTY, that is how. Now we can correctly understand the passage and translate it as it was meant - practical: 天地不仁，以萬物為芻狗； 聖人不仁，以百姓為芻狗。 天地之間，其猶橐籥乎？ 虛而不屈，動而愈出。 多言數窮，不如守中。 Heaven and Earth do not have a kernel (REN) and use all things as straw dogs The ruler is not humane (REN) and uses even nobility as straw dogs Heaven and Earth space, is it not like bellows? Empty but inexhaustible, cycles and evermore produces. Rather than be exhausted by verbality, its better to guard your EMPTY centre. So the passage ends with practical precept on emptiness within, while cyclicality within is left for another passage.

Xiang'er too so may be he was on to something

Hi dawei thanks for the answer but please forgive me for not understanding it. putting aside for now what observing means.. My question was about practical results. Observing the man who might be one of things - what concrete good will come out of it?

not similar. In Yin-yang school the 4 cardinal trigramms are called 象s. its a moving energy that has not yet taken shape 形。an image w/o shape.

'cause its enjoyable.

he he he:)...u got it backwards allan they do tell the people. people just wont listen. )

u might be interested to know that almost all of traditional martial arts practitioners in China smoke.

and? what is the point of observing him?

Hi Aaron so its pretty much along the line of Ecclesiast "all is in wain, just enjoy the little u got, while u r around" whether the ruler or a commoner?